Hugh Jass
Canna-Mycologist
Too quick on the draw for me! Kudos!
Feminized breeding question
- Thread starter SophisticatedBozo
- Start date
Dino Party
💩🔥 💩🔥 💩🔥
That's how I made the Midsicle s1, 2 sisters that each had traits I liked. Reversed one onto the other. I see traits from each plant coming through In each of them.
SophisticatedBozo
In Bloom
If you had a little green house it could be possible to do without cross contamination. You could just pollinate them in the green house and once the pollen has done it’s job you could move them out.
Thank you I appreciate it! Really just trying to find and make things I like. Definitely more chucking than breeding at this point though!
SophisticatedBozo
In Bloom
So then is that why you don’t see the F2 nomenclature because people call them S1? Cuz it’s seems to me like that would technically be an F2 since S1 refers to one plant back onto itself correct?
I understand the concepts but all the terminology has me all mixed up lol
SophisticatedBozo
In Bloom
From my understanding yes, an S2 is made from the progeny of an S1 and the selected plant then gets crossed back into itself to make S2.
I just have never seen a S2. I guess because of the time commitment. F1 , f2 , f3, etc. Are just using a fem/male of each generation to make the next one. So a f1 male/female make an f2 , male/female f2 make an f3. At least from my understanding.
SophisticatedBozo
In Bloom
I know CSI has done S2 work and remember him talking about S2’s not wanting to reverse or throw pollen. But I figured that maybe if you breed with sisters like normal line breeding that it would eliminate that problem.
Psychobilly
🧀Muenster
This is making me ponder something I was thinking about a few weeks ago while talking with the Wife about fems:
Say I have a Blue Cheese female, and I use the reversal, could I then collect some of that pollen of Blue Cheese, and sprinkle that on another Female, say, Chem D, and cross Blue Cheese and Chem D using only the reversed pollen ? Would that Blue Cheese fem pollen seed the Chem D and make Blue Cheese S1 X Chem D ? Would the pollen contain the genetic makeup to only be feminized ?
Say I have a Blue Cheese female, and I use the reversal, could I then collect some of that pollen of Blue Cheese, and sprinkle that on another Female, say, Chem D, and cross Blue Cheese and Chem D using only the reversed pollen ? Would that Blue Cheese fem pollen seed the Chem D and make Blue Cheese S1 X Chem D ? Would the pollen contain the genetic makeup to only be feminized ?
Dino Party
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No, it would just be Chem d x Blue cheese, the s in s1 refers to "self" so you can only get the s1 by crossing it with itself.
Edit: but yes that would create all feminized seeds of the chem d x Blue Cheese
Psychobilly
🧀Muenster
Oh sweet thanks bro ! I was kind of like wondering about that, since part of the chat I had with the Wife, we were thinking about how selfing a plant works out and she's like "But what if you take some of that pollen and sprinkle some on a different strain?" and I'm not at the level of "capable" to answer that so, I figured I'd ask
Mmmmmm Blue Cheese X Chem D SophisticatedBozo
In Bloom
This is what I am trying to flesh out, because if you take two different individuals from the population and reverse one on to the other it seems it should be labeled as F2 rather than S1. I am under the assumption that S1’s are a specific cut reversed back to itself. But it appears that may not be the case?
Dino Party
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Generally you would just note that it is a feminized pollination. It wouldn't be an S anything if you're not selfing it, either back onto itself or a direct sibling.
The F refers to filial generation, which is between brother and sister plant to make the next generation.
The F refers to filial generation, which is between brother and sister plant to make the next generation.
SophisticatedBozo
In Bloom
B
I just don’t see why it would be notated differently just because males aren’t involved. As it is still a combination of different genetics within the same line. I could very well be missing something though.
But wouldn’t it still be a new filial generation even if it was sisters crossed together? It doesn’t seem like the fact they are feminized would change that, because it is still the next generation of the line.
I just don’t see why it would be notated differently just because males aren’t involved. As it is still a combination of different genetics within the same line. I could very well be missing something though.
SophisticatedBozo
In Bloom
Think I have watched most or all of these in my quest for understanding how these things work, but I will definitely rewatch them! I have been listening to a lot of breeder panels and stuff like that as well.
It’s nice to be able to get some feedback and answers from people who are actually doing it though. Rather than just listening to people talk about it.
I think part of the issue with why there isn't much nomenclature with the feminized breedings (other than not many going beyond just S1 or R1) is that a solid standardized nomenclature hasn't been established. I've seen crosses of two different females being noted as R1 (where 'R' stands for Reversal). You could argue that using F is still fine since the 2 individual phenos in your hypothetical are siblings but it doesn't convey the fact that they were the product of a reversal. This doesn't mean it's wrong but if you're trying to optimize the nomenclature and minimize to greatest amount of info with the fewest components, R1 says more than F1. If I saw a listing that stated StrainCross F1 (fem), I'd assume two females were used to cross. If I saw StrainCross F2 (fem), I'd be lost as to what got reversed when since this could just mean that regs made F1 and two fems were chosen for a reversal to make F2. Now that same listing as StrainCross R2 would lead me to believe it has been a process of successive filial reversals. Again, without a widespread consensus and usage, these things are really just up to the person naming the thing to best communicate what is going on.
S1 is clearly established to be a specific plant reversed onto itself but things get murky once you go to S2. I've seen two variations on what an S2 generation would be. I've illustrated them both below because writing it out will get hard to follow.
This first version does not use the same female over and over but instead chooses a new female from each selfed generation to move forward.
This second version looks more like a backcross (because it is) where you are selecting new females from selfing gens to go back to the original fist selected female.
PlumberSoCal
? Guy Fire-y ?
I think most breeders make the cross and release the seeds for growers to grow and look for the best phenos as F1's usually give an array of phenos to find and work.
I keep a couple lines but I'm a far cry from being labeled a "breeder." I've got a couple projects, my Chemgopher (Brutis OG x Chemdog) and GDP are at F4. I did a cross of GDP x Magnum Flames auto that produced some killer purple regs and I back crossed all of it and need to work those seeds but got caught up with some new stuff this year. Not complaining but next year I've got to focus on those crosses.
I've also got F1's of Purple Woman (GDP x LA Woman) and Purple Gopher (GDP x Chemgopher) that I'd like to run and hunt. Someday, maybe?
SophisticatedBozo
In Bloom
I appreciate the very detailed response! And it answers a lot of my questions on the subject. I kind of had a feeling that it really depended on who’s labeling it and as what. Since there isn’t really the established nomenclature for these things.
It sounds like as long as you make it clear as to how it was made it doesn’t matter how it’s labeled? But if you had an second generation fem cross would you then label the parents by the numbers in the lineage, or does it not really matter?
SophisticatedBozo
In Bloom
I would like to get to this same place, where I work a couple things that I like and try to make them better. But I’m far from that point at this time. Someday though.
