URGENT Question The beginning of the END again! Jack's, Coco DTW Grow problems

sportyridr

In Bloom
Hi guys...I am so frustrated...I have been unable to get this under control for 6 months now...there has been ZERO grows through my new 4 x 4 as this keeps happening and ends up cooking the leaves right off...I was growing packed tentfulls in my 32" x 32" tent prior to this.

That said, I thought I was doing this by adding gypsum for Calcium boost pre flower, I also thought I was doing this by a really hot Kelp Foliar but now....

This is happening with just the regular nutes I use and the breakdown is follows in HydroBuddy. Does something look out of whack here...these are the amounts per gallon and the breakdown...

There has been NO Foliar of any kind used, the amounts shown is the breakdown to make my mix come in at 1.2ec/gallon
Jacks @ 1.2 breakdown.jpg

Conditions:
Coco Coir/perlite 90/10% (brand new)
80*, no cold nights yet as they are on 24 hours
60% RH
1.2 ec
5.7 to 5.9 pH

Plants just up potted, half on Tues, half on Thurs and already showing issues this morning. The Purple Punch in the back right corner actually started before up potting, the others are following right along.

Here are some pics of this endless BS that's been going on for months now and at this stage.

07.jpg 08.jpg 09.jpg 10.jpg 11.jpg 12.jpg


Really at my whits end here, I have a lil bit of hair left but not much. Interestingly no other plants have done this that are growing elsewhere here. I am losing my effing mind...sure wish I had a buddy close with some knowledge to see what's goin on in person but alas...I need to ask you good folks and your years of knowledge for some help. My almost 4 years of growing can't get a grip on it. :(

This does not seem to be from up potting as the Purple Punch in the back has started this before doing so.

Sulfur?
Phosphorous?
Magnesium?
Calcium?

These are all things that I see going on here....am I not seeing something?

I have ruled out bugs as all the coco has been new but did scope the last time this happened and saw nothing.

Another question I have is about Sulfur, should the ppm's be as high as the Magnesium count is? (see breakdown above) I never noticed this until I started having these issues.

Thank you in advance for dropping your knowledge here to help me out...

Lastly I know it's crazy but I think this tent is cursed as ZERO plants have ever made it out of a grow since I bought it in August. It's not that but it does make me wonder wtf is up with all the bad JuJu ?
 

OldG

Elite Hobbyist
Yes always when I bought the cheaper bricks, that said this new stuff is supposed to be washed & buffered & ready to go so I didn't have to fool with it...

Question though...

Wouldn't this have started alot sooner than after up potting as it's the same Coco?
coco usually presents later problems...but its not calmag.

wish i could help. i went to soil.
 
Thank you for taking a stab at it man...I wish I could help myself...as I said in my post, I have two other smaller grows going on here with zero of these issues...it's kinda insane lol

im gonna take a more in depth poke at this later today once i get settled in, also not much of a coco grower. but from a quick look, 80 F @ 24/0 is gonna hurt your chances. if you can adjust that to give the plants some rest, more space between canopy and light, and more moist conditions, thats a start. your NPK values like wildly off to a soil grower like me, and your nute package is very strong in general. I see lock outs occurring P-CalM, and more potentially.

ill try to get at this more later, hope that helps a little for now. are you trying to save these or just make it stop? if its the latter, go buy some ocean forest, hit restart. zero feeding for 3 weeks.
 

sportyridr

In Bloom
im gonna take a more in depth poke at this later today once i get settled in, also not much of a coco grower. but from a quick look, 80 F @ 24/0 is gonna hurt your chances. if you can adjust that to give the plants some rest, more space between canopy and light, and more moist conditions, thats a start. your NPK values like wildly off to a soil grower like me, and your nute package is very strong in general. I see lock outs occurring P-CalM, and more potentially.

ill try to get at this more later, hope that helps a little for now. are you trying to save these or just make it stop? if its the latter, go buy some ocean forest, hit restart. zero feeding for 3 weeks.

I was hoping the Coco folks that are here could help or offer suggestions

Honestly telling me to go buy a bag of soil is pretty fucked up...certainly not what I expected of this membership here...so to be curt, please don't waste any more of your time on this thread...thanks
 
I was hoping the Coco folks that are here could help or offer suggestions

Honestly telling me to go buy a bag of soil is pretty fucked up...certainly not what I expected of this membership here...so to be curt, please don't waste any more of your time on this thread...thanks
Just offering an option if you were looking to start fresh. Here are some charts I dug up at work that might help. As asked, I’ll leave this thread and you alone. Sorry about your problems.

4D29A439-CC59-4B33-849A-2A0641B82230.jpeg
236461CF-3B60-4526-889F-C91D26381F3A.jpeg
0B530CA6-9483-4DBF-8D08-87ADF67C4D77.jpeg
 

Smokieokie

Firelake Seeds
I would lower my potassium and raise pH to 6.2 for a few waterings. Just my 2 cents, and sometimes it's only worth half of that ?. But from my understanding calciums best range for optimum uptake is above 6.2 and closer to 7. I run mine around 6.0-6.4 might even hit 6.5 or 5.8 every once in awhile. Range is ok, it's when they are constantly fed at an undesirable pH they lockout or start to. Hope this helps ?
 

sportyridr

In Bloom
I would lower my potassium and raise pH to 6.2 for a few waterings. Just my 2 cents, and sometimes it's only worth half of that ?. But from my understanding calciums best range for optimum uptake is above 6.2 and closer to 7. I run mine around 6.0-6.4 might even hit 6.5 or 5.8 every once in awhile. Range is ok, it's when they are constantly fed at an undesirable pH they lockout or start to. Hope this helps ?

Thank you,

I take it you feel this is a Calcium issue...I've been chasing Sulfur because of the way it starts on the leaves...right from the stem and works outwards...Good idea on the pH, especially using the lower ec I have been using maybe an issue
 

Jewels

Tilts at Tables
Casual Observer who knows nothing about this product/regimen,,,,
Jack's 321 listed at 5-12-26
,,, so is actually 1- 2.5 -5 ?
Am I missing something?
Where does the 321 part come in?
Am I reading this correct?
If so , final ratio is 1.25 - 1 - 2.5

Am I off base?
Am I reading this wrong?

Formula looks N weak, as do photos.
 

sportyridr

In Bloom
Casual Observer who knows nothing about this product/regimen,,,,
Jack's 321 listed at 5-12-26
,,, so is actually 1- 2.5 -5 ?
Am I missing something?
Where does the 321 part come in?
Am I reading this correct?
If so , final ratio is 1.25 - 1 - 2.5

Am I off base?
Am I reading this wrong?

Formula looks N weak, as do photos.

The formula to measure and feed Jack's for the 5 - 12 - 26 was for the longest time as follows...It's really called Jack's Hydro at the 5/12/26 Ratio.

3.6 grams/gal Part A Base + Micros
2.4 grams/gal Part B Calcium Nitrate
1.2 grams/gal Part C Epsom Salts

This came to be known as Jack's 3-2-1 :) and you can also feed at that ratio as it equals 80% strength of the numbers I listed above...

Last fall Jack's updated their mixing volumes but only by a few tenths. I won't even go there...hope that helps
 

Smokieokie

Firelake Seeds
Thank you,

I take it you feel this is a Calcium issue...I've been chasing Sulfur because of the way it starts on the leaves...right from the stem and works outwards...Good idea on the pH, especially using the lower ec I have been using maybe an issue
Maybe not a calcium issue but more of a transportation issue due to low pH. It looks like you have plenty of calcium and magnesium in the nutes, just too high of potassium and low pH. Combine those two together it will look like a deficiency when it's not.
A few feedings with the corrected pH and lower ec you will see them turn around. If you have any amino acids you could add them to help aid in the transport of nutes as well.
 

sportyridr

In Bloom
Maybe not a calcium issue but more of a transportation issue due to low pH. It looks like you have plenty of calcium and magnesium in the nutes, just too high of potassium and low pH. Combine those two together it will look like a deficiency when it's not.
A few feedings with the corrected pH and lower ec you will see them turn around. If you have any amino acids you could add them to help aid in the transport of nutes as well.

So I decided to water all of the affected to runoff to look at the numbers

EC of the runoff was 3.5 so way out off the chart for newly up potted plants...never bothered with pH check as I made water for a full flush. We are now down to a 1.0ec and 6 pH and I have bumped the feed to 1.6 of straight 3-2-1 ratio with no adds until there is improvement

The Kelp was adding that extra K so we are stopping that...

Solved for now...the poor things need to chill & dry out

So the Viagrow Buffered Premium Coco Coir that I did not check any numbers on was just out of site high. I've had better bales of the cheaper stuff. So, it's on me for assuming it was going to be decent out of the bag.

Thanks to all for the input, hope we got er!
 

Turpman

In Bloom
What’s your lighting looks like you may need less light.

I’m using straight jacks and some potassium silicate. Coco perlite I don’t mess with the coco I just plant and water.

My veg runs about 75f and high 60s rh. I tend to run on the small side for pot volume vs plant size. Large pots can evaporate water and your ppm will climb so you may have to take that int account.
Have used 321 and recently the max mix. 1000ppm. Plants seem to love it.
I reciently have turned my veg lights down I use equivalent to bridgelux 4000k strips.
I was getting yellow tops and fussy plants at around 15000 Lux. Back light way off and they seem way happier, like 6-7000 Lux. I thought they would stretch a lot more but they seem to still have good node spacing. I veg on 18”x4’ rolling shelving. And at the moment everything is full so I have some older veging plants beside and they are growing fine with the same ppm, I haven’t measured but they are Probly around 3000lux I think my max ppm is around 1000ppm.
I have a few plants that don’t like the high ppm Chocalope and my blueberry tend to claw so they get 500ppm.

I don’t see much for clawing in your plants wich would dictate over feeding. I’d dial the light back if your running max. Or even move a plant or 2 to less light as a test. Do a flush with 500ppm.
 
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