When Do You "Know" a Strain?

Amarok

bad mother chucker
Staff member
Moderator
Just wanted to start the discussion.

I first really thought about this a while back when I harvested my Cindy cut earlier than normal. I'd been growing that cut for a few years, but always harvesting around the same time. Chopping 10 days earlier (49 vs 59) made a very significant change in the effect.
Now that I'm in my new place and growing in a cold basement I'm seeing new expressions from cuts I've grown a bunch of times.

Point being that even cuts I thought I knew had surprises left, ones that could be unlocked by time or environment. What does that imply about a cultivar/strain and all the genetics within?

I've seen on places like RIU where people grow a seed or two out of a pack and talk like they are now qualified to authoritatively evaluate the line. To me this is impossible.

Any thoughts? What criteria need to be fulfilled before you consider yourself to know a line?
 

Rozgreenburn

"The Philosopher, is Stoned"
Just wanted to start the discussion.

I first really thought about this a while back when I harvested my Cindy cut earlier than normal. I'd been growing that cut for a few years, but always harvesting around the same time. Chopping 10 days earlier (49 vs 59) made a very significant change in the effect.
Now that I'm in my new place and growing in a cold basement I'm seeing new expressions from cuts I've grown a bunch of times.

Point being that even cuts I thought I knew had surprises left, ones that could be unlocked by time or environment. What does that imply about a cultivar/strain and all the genetics within?

I've seen on places like RIU where people grow a seed or two out of a pack and talk like they are now qualified to authoritatively evaluate the line. To me this is impossible.

Any thoughts? What criteria need to be fulfilled before you consider yourself to know a line?
I started on that site but the Bro. science is off the hook, and that feeds the trolls. There are great folks there as well, But I'm stayin' here...
 

Skunky Dunk Farms

Cannabinoid Receptor
Just wanted to start the discussion.

I first really thought about this a while back when I harvested my Cindy cut earlier than normal. I'd been growing that cut for a few years, but always harvesting around the same time. Chopping 10 days earlier (49 vs 59) made a very significant change in the effect.
Now that I'm in my new place and growing in a cold basement I'm seeing new expressions from cuts I've grown a bunch of times.

Point being that even cuts I thought I knew had surprises left, ones that could be unlocked by time or environment. What does that imply about a cultivar/strain and all the genetics within?

I've seen on places like RIU where people grow a seed or two out of a pack and talk like they are now qualified to authoritatively evaluate the line. To me this is impossible.

Any thoughts? What criteria need to be fulfilled before you consider yourself to know a line?
I've been putting seed to soil since the early '70's, i still haven't arrived.
 

Rozgreenburn

"The Philosopher, is Stoned"
Just wanted to start the discussion.

I first really thought about this a while back when I harvested my Cindy cut earlier than normal. I'd been growing that cut for a few years, but always harvesting around the same time. Chopping 10 days earlier (49 vs 59) made a very significant change in the effect.
Now that I'm in my new place and growing in a cold basement I'm seeing new expressions from cuts I've grown a bunch of times.

Point being that even cuts I thought I knew had surprises left, ones that could be unlocked by time or environment. What does that imply about a cultivar/strain and all the genetics within?

I've seen on places like RIU where people grow a seed or two out of a pack and talk like they are now qualified to authoritatively evaluate the line. To me this is impossible.

Any thoughts? What criteria need to be fulfilled before you consider yourself to know a line?
The first thing I want to see is a little humility. As you have stated, the plants all react to their environs and input. I too have had a few that schooled me, I kinda like it when beautiful ladies put me in my place!
 

Frosty78

Habitabat autem somnium
I don't think you can ever truly know a strain.
Imagine the differe t climates, soil profiles, Microbe colonies around the world and the expressions, growth, structure, terp profiles, colour, just about everything can change a.smidge ( or unlock as I like to think) and show you something different you hadn't seen in your neck of the woods. I like to think of it like wine and.vineyards. different flavours and aromas in one vineyard to the next. Sometimes across the road in the same town. Bloody great question posed @Amarok
Perfect example was happy place I grew last year 400km away in same state same light hours etc. One area had more rain and coolness. The other hot
The hot one was shorter stockier and finished 6 weeks before the other one.
Micro climates is the key here. Indoors you can make it pretty uniform all over the world. Outdoors is where you will see a bigger selections of phenos.
Again great question.
 

Amarok

bad mother chucker
Staff member
Moderator
I think creating a strain and growing out a decent population of every generation while taking it to f5 or above (ink) would qualify is knowing the tendencies of a line
Yes and no, IMO.

Doing what you described would give you a good idea of that line, but only in those particular environs, under those lights, at that temperature, with that feed regimen.

...and how many of us have ever even got that far? I know I've never come close to that.

-----------------------------

I see parallels between different fishing styles and different growing styles.

Some guys like to run and gun, throwing their best presentations at as much water as possible, looking for the keeper. Others will work one area thoroughly, hoping to learn all they can and use that to advantage.

With gardening, some want to grow as many different plants as they can, sampling the largest possible selection of genetics. Others will explore a few lines to try to see what they hold.

The reason these are my two main hobbies is that there is no single right way to grow or to fish. Both branches above can lead to success and fulfillment.

I hope the discussion continues. :)
 

PlumberSoCal

? Guy Fire-y ?
I know my GDP's and can spot a red leaning pheno between any of my others. Do I know all of it's various expressions? Of course not. Maybe after a decade or more I may but I do have the ability to grow it spring summer fall and winter and have seen an array of phenos that those growing indoors probably would never see with these same seeds.

This strain became one of my top 5's almost 20 years ago and I plan on keeping this line going always.
 

Idlewilder

Underground Chucker
Doing what you described would give you a good idea of that line, but only in those particular environs, under those lights, at that temperature, with that feed regimen.
I completely agree about how environments, lights, grow style affect plants. This carries through to seeds imo. I like it when I know a breeders growing style, especially when it lines up with mine ?
there is no single right way to grow or to fish
So true. HYOH
 

insulin

Rooted
I grew out the same Sweet Tooth #3 from a pack of Spice of Life seeds for the better part of 15+ years. I grew out the entire pack and picked the best mom to keep alive. The clones from the mom did great in soil and DWC. The smell was easy to control and the high was fun and relaxing. That is why out of everything I had bought on my one nerved out seed order, I kept it around for so long. It was my stealth strain before my state went legal. It was also super easy to clone.

I primarily grew this strain in DWC. DWC added a punch that I was not able to reproduce with soil and space constraints. Eventually I lost the mom but did make seeds. One batch of sweet tooth #3 into sweet tooth #3 and one of sweet tooth #3 into white rhino.

When my state went legal last year I popped the first of those seeds that had sat in a jar in the fridge for 6 years. I made F3's this past fall just in case and crossed it to some of the newer stuff.

What I know about this strain.. It's easy to grow. I'm an average grower at best. My in-laws were able to run it just fine.. We both ran it outdoors something I previously had never done. Bag appeal nothing special on outdoors. Taste is nice though.

The high is goofy fun.. It's not blunt force like some of the newer stuff I've tried and really like. A few bowls and you are off to happy land for a bit with a nice soft landing. Or just smoke again and continue the party.

It's prone to bud rot esp if humidity is high outdoors or in the grow room.

The plant was not a nutrient hog. Less was more from my experience.. Anything near 1000ppm in DWC was burn city. Again I'm no expert.

I feel like I understand the stain.. Now how this past years seed run will turn out is anybodies guess. And with the variety of seeds I have now and 15 years smoking the same thing it might be awhile.. Hopefully I can look through some of the seeds this summer.
 

Psychobilly

🧀Muenster
OK, so I want to add something to this thread too, but my experience level is a little bit different:

This passed October marked my third time growing, and though I do feel sometimes that I'm "outgunned" in terms of experience compared to you guys, not ONCE have ANY of you EVER made me feel that way. Which I appreciate by the way. Seriously I love you guys.

I do read a LOT, and I'm intrigued by some strains, and the genetics of them, which feeds my "Hacker Curiosity" and now that I've started to REALLY put effort into learning about growing, genetics, and everything else that is in the umbrella of Cannabis and Genetics, I feel like with a mindset like mine, I'm going to put my mind to it, which I don't take as a small thing by any means. As an example, I got my very first Computer back in like 1999, which I was already like 17 years old, which made me sometimes feel like I had a disadvantage compared to the guys who had been raised with Computers, but within a few years, I was in college for Computer Science, majoring in Networking, Operating Systems, and Security of both, and helped my teachers design the curriculum for more advanced courses, as I had put in work learning everything I could about this thing that intrigued me.

Now I've started applying that mind set to Cannabis, and I have actual hopes and dreams in that; I'd like to one day have a career doing breeding. I read a lot, and I experiment a lot, which are the two things I did when it came to Computer Science. I realized one day "Wait you can get PAID to do this???" LOL! Having spent my early years working in restaurants and doing whatever job I could get to make money, it wasn't easy to imagine that I'd be able to have an actual career, OR having a job that doesn't require a medical benefit for wear and tear on my middle finger (If you've ever worked as a dishwasher, you probably know what I mean LOL).

So what have I learned that I'm still trying to learn even more? Well it's no surprise how much I love Blue Cheese, and it's actually the first strain I ever grew. Thank God it's easy to grow, because I had NO idea what I was doing that first time around.... I think I've mentioned before how I gave that poor girl 5 gallons of water a day..... Pulled it early like a moron..... But still had some GOOD buds!

My Fiance grew Sunshine, as that is the strain she picked when we went and got some clones that first year.

The next year came, and we ended up being given a bunch of clones:

3 Detroit Lemonade
1 Skywalker
2 Motor Breath
Then we got two clones of Blue Cheese REALLY late in the season (I think it was in May of that year so they missed a lot of Veg)

That year I learned a lot about growing in general, and using Nutes and pruning to change how the plant was going to grow. I had enough plants that I felt comfortable "playing" (Experimenting) with the plants. I read online, watched videos, but I didn't have a community of people like I do at this point with you guys where I could bounce ideas passed you guys, learn from you guys, and generally feel accepted for who I am.

I ended up with Seeds from my plants that were all clones, and I DID attempt to start a few seeds that year, but basically; the LAST seed I tried and got sprouted, finally got going, and I didn't kill it with stupid inexperience ...

Last Spring I never heard from my buddy that I get my Blue Cheese Clones from, but I did have the Seeds from our plants from the previous season, so I slowly started my process;

Red Solo Cups with a piece of Duct Tape on them and a Sharpie Marker saying which cup was which strain, and got them to sprout! 4 Blue Cheese Seeds ended up sprouting, and 2 were male so I had to dump them, and the other two,were female! So I had TWO Seedlings of Blue Cheese, and after reading and talking with you guys, I started understanding the idea of "Phenotypes".

I got my Seeds going this passed season, and all my plants did well. I also started separating the Seeds for Blue Cheese based on which plant they came from, as I had two VERY distinct different Blue Cheese plants, and the one that I took my clones from, is the super Skunky Sour Cheese Funk one I used as a Mother to take 5 clones from, and the other one, is the VERY floral not as pungent seedling, which, I've been putting all those seeds in a different baggie that's marked.

For Blue Cheese, I've had it since I started growing, and these Seedlings were vastly different from the clones they came from, and with you guys answering my probably pretty stupid questions I've learned a lot more about Phenotypes, and to make sure the seeds of something special don't actually end up in the SAME baggie of Seeds, simply marked "Blue Cheese!!" (Yes the baggies AND the lids of Jars, AND the Grove bag that has Blue Cheese in it, ALL have the "!!" on there since I'm excited to write it :) ) .

So after 3 years of Growing the same strain that is still without a doubt my ALL time favorite strain ever, I've learned a lot about it, and yet there's still SO much more to go...... Which I'm fine with, as the differences I've personally seen in just ONE strain like Blue Cheese that I "thought I knew" is SO interesting! SO many possibilities, so many smells, so many flavors, how can I NOT love what I'm learning to do ? Even with back breaking labor all Spring, Summer, and Fall ? When it's HOT outside, and I'm dragging gallons of Water and Nutes to my plants, and I'm sweating through my clothes, I try not to complain about it, and remember that I'm getting closer and closer to my goals; Not just the goals of having LOTS of Blue Cheese, or other FIRE strains I've been getting Seeds of, but also my goal to be able to do this as a career too.

I feel like I'm starting to understand the idea of Pheno Hunting in general; Sprouting up seeds, and checking to see what differences and "traits" come about from the same strain, and the differences in smells and tastes I've now started to notice.

Looking forward to Spring this year, and the grow journal I'm going to try and do with my plants this year, and of course, realizing that seedlings may just smell a whole lot different from the plant they came from.

Two years in a row I've grown Skywalker, and though my seeds all came from one that had a very nice Blueberry / Earthy smell, the Seedling I started last season ended up being VERY Blueberry forward. So again, Pheno Hunting! And Hopefully this year I'll find another special gem in my collection, and Hopefully be able to send out some seeds to see what you guys think :)
 
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