Rosinallday
7th Day Seeds
Which one went hermie? The purple-ish one or the other.
Idlewilder Adventures
- Thread starter Idlewilder
- Start date
Idlewilder
Underground Chucker
It was another non-purple that got axed. The purplish one also showed some balls but I picked them off. They were/are in 1gal and have been for a while so perhaps being root bound pissed them off. I also have some pest pressure right now
Idlewilder
Underground Chucker
I’ll add that it was on shaded lowers on the purplish, whereas the green plant in a 1gal was all over. It got chopped
Frimpong
🔥Freak Genetics🔥
Dam
Dam everythings looking very happy. That belts is spectacular ??
Idlewilder
Underground Chucker
RB smells so good
Frimpong
🔥Freak Genetics🔥
I act like I know but I've only ran crosses. Lol but goddamn I know that Skittles is coming through that it has to be . Crazy aftertaste too. I can't wait for the smoke report! ????
BH
Tha Dank Hoarder
Just trying to help, I’m sure u got ur soo in bay but always good to give some advice ( hope o don’t sound like I’m drowning or spamming ya )
Cleaning ur areas without everything else corrected is not gonnea correct ur pest pressure but also u haven’t addressed ur ipm ….. exp for mites, shoot they be even a-sexual like many pest reproducing so quickly. Do u wear grow room only clothes/coveralls and boots? I know I look like I’m in a meth lab but I’m also doing this as I don’t like damaging my clothes and really makes working in a garden easier. I agree not tracking in pest is such a good thing. It’s just u can’t skip steps on IPM and think cleaning only will solve this alone..
1. Knockout
every 3 days, another knockout, every 3 days knockout . Key is rotational and knowing what u apply if it has limits of use or mode of attacks it lacks.
a good cheap one is diy greencleaner ( shoot if I see high pressure, apply this every 24hr first 2-5 days in a row)
recipe 1/3 70% iso, 1/3 sals soap & 1/3 oil like canola. Once together always shake before making foliar. Application rate 1T/15/0.5oz-up to 2oz/4T ( heavy/high pest pressure)
2nd knockout that works better but always good to rotate and pro for this is cheap, very broad on what it kills and won’t harm plant/stress is suffoilx !
i suggest if pest pressure exist apply this product a few days in row at 1-2oz per gallon, start at 1 oz and observe next day if ur plants can take it, if so than next day apply 1.5-2oz per gallon. The mode of action is they will get fried and also it kills all stages of the mite.
a key with that product to work correctly and no stress is, like many foliars make sure ur plants are drench/watered min 30 min before foliar spraying . When diy Greencleaner mixed into water u need a min time of 10min to dissolve correctly into the water. Than make sure u get every surface of the plant !
I only endorse the diy GC for certain times and its price and great non resistance benefits if pest are there. Otherwise other products (like evergreen or suffoilx as better alt) as knockouts afterwards and with biocontrols , exp after 3/4th week of bloom .. don’t ever let these pest make ya think it’s unbeatable cause I coild correct others gardens and myself even in flower when I spotted mites. It’s not really one of the pest I see as a high risk vs like broad/hemp ru
sset where it will Eat ur buds alive lol
bombs, cleaning , nasty pesticides - all asking for pest to always be there and even if lucky u don’t have a plan to fight a pest that its not if u will, it’s when …. Yes I approve of cleaning grow rooms but to think u will fight natures cycle and kill the, by such is silly. They survive on even just one but also can even dorminate anywhere till environment is right. Good example is people shoipd wonder how all bugs just appear everywhere when temps are there. Well many they reawaken when temperature and enviroment tells them aka evolution of the bugs.
here’s a good article I made for sop directly towards two spot mite;
phenohunter.org
Cleaning ur areas without everything else corrected is not gonnea correct ur pest pressure but also u haven’t addressed ur ipm ….. exp for mites, shoot they be even a-sexual like many pest reproducing so quickly. Do u wear grow room only clothes/coveralls and boots? I know I look like I’m in a meth lab but I’m also doing this as I don’t like damaging my clothes and really makes working in a garden easier. I agree not tracking in pest is such a good thing. It’s just u can’t skip steps on IPM and think cleaning only will solve this alone..
1. Knockout
every 3 days, another knockout, every 3 days knockout . Key is rotational and knowing what u apply if it has limits of use or mode of attacks it lacks.
a good cheap one is diy greencleaner ( shoot if I see high pressure, apply this every 24hr first 2-5 days in a row)
recipe 1/3 70% iso, 1/3 sals soap & 1/3 oil like canola. Once together always shake before making foliar. Application rate 1T/15/0.5oz-up to 2oz/4T ( heavy/high pest pressure)
2nd knockout that works better but always good to rotate and pro for this is cheap, very broad on what it kills and won’t harm plant/stress is suffoilx !
i suggest if pest pressure exist apply this product a few days in row at 1-2oz per gallon, start at 1 oz and observe next day if ur plants can take it, if so than next day apply 1.5-2oz per gallon. The mode of action is they will get fried and also it kills all stages of the mite.
a key with that product to work correctly and no stress is, like many foliars make sure ur plants are drench/watered min 30 min before foliar spraying . When diy Greencleaner mixed into water u need a min time of 10min to dissolve correctly into the water. Than make sure u get every surface of the plant !
I only endorse the diy GC for certain times and its price and great non resistance benefits if pest are there. Otherwise other products (like evergreen or suffoilx as better alt) as knockouts afterwards and with biocontrols , exp after 3/4th week of bloom .. don’t ever let these pest make ya think it’s unbeatable cause I coild correct others gardens and myself even in flower when I spotted mites. It’s not really one of the pest I see as a high risk vs like broad/hemp ru
sset where it will Eat ur buds alive lol
bombs, cleaning , nasty pesticides - all asking for pest to always be there and even if lucky u don’t have a plan to fight a pest that its not if u will, it’s when …. Yes I approve of cleaning grow rooms but to think u will fight natures cycle and kill the, by such is silly. They survive on even just one but also can even dorminate anywhere till environment is right. Good example is people shoipd wonder how all bugs just appear everywhere when temps are there. Well many they reawaken when temperature and enviroment tells them aka evolution of the bugs.
here’s a good article I made for sop directly towards two spot mite;
Two-Spot/General Mite aka Tetranychidae Info/IPM & Knockout
"Spider mites (Tetranychidae) are common pests of many outdoor crops including berries, ornamentals, vines, many fruit trees, hemp and cannabis. There are many subspecies of spider mites in the Tetranychus genus including the Pacific Spider Mite, Two-Spotted Spider Mite and Strawberry Spider...
phenohunter.org
Last edited:
Idlewilder
Underground Chucker
I truly appreciate your input and you desire to help all of our gardens. I agree that cleaning without already having eradicated the pest won’t achieve a pest free environment.Just trying to help, I’m sure u got ur soo in bay but always good to give some advice ( hope o don’t sound like I’m drowning or spamming ya )
Cleaning ur areas without everything else corrected is not gonnea correct ur pest pressure but also u haven’t addressed ur ipm ….. exp for mites, shoot they be even a-sexual like many pest reproducing so quickly. Do u wear grow room only clothes/coveralls and boots? I know I look like I’m in a meth lab but I’m also doing this as I don’t like damaging my clothes and really makes working in a garden easier. I agree not tracking in pest is such a good thing. It’s just u can’t skip steps on IPM and think cleaning only will solve this alone..
1. Knockout
every 3 days, another knockout, every 3 days knockout . Key is rotational and knowing what u apply if it has limits of use or mode of attacks it lacks.
a good cheap one is diy greencleaner ( shoot if I see high pressure, apply this every 24hr first 2-5 days in a row)
recipe 1/3 70% iso, 1/3 sals soap & 1/3 oil like canola. Once together always shake before making foliar. Application rate 1T/15/0.5oz-up to 2oz/4T ( heavy/high pest pressure)
2nd knockout that works better but always good to rotate and pro for this is cheap, very broad on what it kills and won’t harm plant/stress is suffoilx !
i suggest if pest pressure exist apply this product a few days in row at 1-2oz per gallon, start at 1 oz and observe next day if ur plants can take it, if so than next day apply 1.5-2oz per gallon. The mode of action is they will get fried and also it kills all stages of the mite.
a key with that product to work correctly and no stress is, like many foliars make sure ur plants are drench/watered min 30 min before foliar spraying . When diy Greencleaner mixed into water u need a min time of 10min to dissolve correctly into the water. Than make sure u get every surface of the plant !
I only endorse the diy GC for certain times and its price and great non resistance benefits if pest are there. Otherwise other products (like evergreen or suffoilx as better alt) as knockouts afterwards and with biocontrols , exp after 3/4th week of bloom .. don’t ever let these pest make ya think it’s unbeatable cause I coild correct others gardens and myself even in flower when I spotted mites. It’s not really one of the pest I see as a high risk vs like broad/hemp ru
sset where it will Eat ur buds alive lol
bombs, cleaning , nasty pesticides - all asking for pest to always be there and even if lucky u don’t have a plan to fight a pest that its not if u will, it’s when …. Yes I approve of cleaning grow rooms but to think u will fight natures cycle and kill the, by such is silly. They survive on even just one but also can even dorminate anywhere till environment is right. Good example is people shoipd wonder how all bugs just appear everywhere when temps are there. Well many they reawaken when temperature and enviroment tells them aka evolution of the bugs.
here’s a good article I made for sop directly towards two spot mite;
Two-Spot/General Mite aka Tetranychidae Info/IPM & Knockout
"Spider mites (Tetranychidae) are common pests of many outdoor crops including berries, ornamentals, vines, many fruit trees, hemp and cannabis. There are many subspecies of spider mites in the Tetranychus genus including the Pacific Spider Mite, Two-Spotted Spider Mite and Strawberry Spider...
I ordered Phytoseiulus persimilis predators this past week in an effort to not spray my buds. They should be here Wednesday. I also got nematodes that I’ll apply to the soil for fungus gnats
The mites are only in my flower tent but will up my IPM game in veg to keep it that way. Can you confirm that spraying Venerate and Grandevo in flower will not affect buds/quality? Any place you recommend ordering the biocontrols from? Coupon codes? Thanks man ?
BH
Tha Dank Hoarder
biocontrols like Grandevo and venerate are a game changer vs harsh chemicals and traditional pesticides. Not only are your not gonnea stres ur plants but even if bugs are not there if they ever come you got the multi mode/ISR defense but also making sure your not stressing a plant out in a IPM or degrading your medicine doing so. Before I did biocontrols I stopped foliars at week 3/4 and such rules exp outdoors you’re asking for failures. So for companies to discover natures safe defenses are a gem for a grower. companies like marrone study thousands of diff bacteria/fungi and test if they can be controlled with such. doing so in last 10 years we as farmers are lacking if not the safest tools against mold,pest and making a plant naturally defendable instead of using things that are just cover ups and Also to stress the plant or make super bugs aka resistance issues. Even organic things like neem , or Soap cannot be used in flower but also can ask for major issues when something like Grandevo or venerate as a example does nothing but defend and also have many multi modes of defenses. not only that it’s such a beneficial ipm too; and cheap enough to use I use it on all my grapes, veggies, fruit outdoors . easy and it feels nice being able to keep pest pressures gone or low and not use bad chemicals anymore
safety and use in flower
I was curious about these things before using biocontrols like Grandevo or venerate on cannabis , exp in flower stage , but before they even had cannabis label aka cg ( certified approvable in all rx/rec states for commerical and listed safe for flower ) so I asked since tobacco was listed, will they answer it for cannabis “hemp”?. Also asked their suggestion What are the best foliar methods to be used with these proeducts and things I need to know for cannabis foliars , marrone had a lot of good suggestions and I have used their sop/suggestions in mine, works great . well marrone ( company that owned Grandevo/venerate) told me honestly how it works ( read the links about both products and wiki) They like many other companies look in labs and look at diff species of bacteria/fungi and use as a biocontrol and see the functions and modes. these products not only show their better ipm tool because of cost, no stress to plant, broad compatible, no ppe, can’t kill a bee but kill over 300 species of soft bodied includ(ng broad and hemp russet mites. key is to know like any biocontrol is using it accordly and knowing it’s limits. Meaning if u have a pest pressure above low, u need to mix in and rotate with a knockout. in which I don’t add knockouts and remove from my schedule Inless pest pressure exists.
point is do math of any tradional oil based or soap and see which one favors you in end and which is more harmful to ur ecosystem and plants/medium? I can handle the cost of biocontrols cause typically they are under 50 cents per gallon and flower stage safe. you mix on oils and npk and non biocontrols I cna def see u stressing a plant in bloom or degrading it. But spraying heat killed bacteria wont and also give you a IPM safety if the pest pressure occurs they can’t damage ur crop. Another thing is being a speciality crop i Don’t wanna damage anythjng but also stress it. many tradional pest/fungicides I think do and really aren’t needed for successful IPM treatments. if Anything they should ban many pesticides that have shown on large scale monocropping of ag that we are def having super bugs because of use of harsh chemicals only and not realizing how much nature does this buffer and balance.
the biggest mistake and blame via foliar exp in flower not working out and is Easily overlooked on how important it is by treating it “flower foliar” cause otherwise u can do more harm than good via foliars . Meaning spraying too hard on the plant hen there’s buds , I only spray for 5-10 seconds fine mist per 4x4 ( recommend a fine spray , like paint sprayer ). Then I make sure I have 2-3 hr min darkness, after spraying i make sure airflow is running and turn back hvac/deh . the key was droplet size and not overdoing The foliar cause if I saw degradation on my plants from this I would of stopped years ago . I pay and go longer than most for even ocd level dry/process/cure so doing that would be madness. Read the sop and it explains better and more details from pest info to what to do and misc.
as example of venerate and Grandevo, it’s function and info
Grandevo (Chromobacterium subtsugae)
Chromobacterium - Wikipedia
Grandevo® | Insect Management | Pro Farm Group - Formerly Marrone Bio Innovations
A next-generation bioinsecticide, Grandevo offers growers long-lasting, cross-spectrum control to strengthen performance of modern pest management programs.
marronebio.com
and
venerate aka Burkholderia spp. strain A396
Burkholderia - Wikipedia
Venerate® | Reduce Insect Resistance | Marrone Bio
Venerate® XC Bioinsecticide is effective to control aphids, leafhopper, mites, thrips and reduce insect resistance as part of your IPM or IRM program.
marronebio.com
are both made by heat killing bacteria so they do same function as if they were alive to the pest, the pest is attracted to the terps of the microbes , the bugs cannnot become resistant . Why not use one If non resistance ? like anything if you were only offfered one food and have other options . Like anything the pest will than pick other options in trials aka ur plant so switching from Grandevo to venerate has been proven by diff terps attractions and diff modes of attack/isr .
5+ years growing with it indoors and out and its even approved for flower stage cannabis in all states and Canada . u wont fail a lab test from it and it wont degrade ur quality in anyway. Key is in flower to mist ur plants fully but no runoff/droples and use a fine mist (5-10 sec per 4x4) use a wet agent (i pefer yucca) after spray return on majority on fans. Schedule ur spray on min of Having lights off for 2-3hrs.
The benefits of these products vs oils and tradional pesticides is it can be used in flower np but also the mode of grandevo n venerate is broad and works against mant species of pest but also is safe on predators, beneficial bacteria and bees. plus you can use these products if u need knockout if it’s a not singular omly product. Meaning example 1, you see mite. for first 15 days after pest pressure of two Spot mite apply knockout and biocontrol at egg rate of 3 days. Rotate from Grandevo and venerate but if behind 3/4th week of bloom for cannabis mix in a knockout till u see pest pressure lower with ethier biocontrol . look at sop for better details.
awesome video on the lab that makes Grandevo/venerate and other biocontrols. Soo cool!
—-
suggestion for wholesaler for biocontrols & bug experts:
been buying from them nearly 10 years, they are great at pest id confirming and saved me a bunch when I even thought a bug was a pest and whatcha know they corrected me and saved me from killing beneficial bugs. thats if not one of the other biggest things people need to do, always pest Id confirm extactly what bug that is, so many look similiar or need a completely diff ipm for sucess.
Supplier of Beneficial Insects, Natural Fungicides & Insecticides, Sticky Tape, and Pheromone Lures - Evergreen Growers Supply, LLC
Evergreen Growers Supply, LLC - Distributor of beneficial insects for biological control of aphids, flies, fungus gnats, leaf miners, mealybugs, mites, thrips, whiteflies, scales. We also offer complimentary products such as Actinovate ag, Actinovate sp, Actino-Iron, Met52, NoFy and much more.
for marrone products, I google and look around but honestly shipping is what got me and I asked my local hydro and got me everything I wanted recently. Shoot I bought 2 bags of 6 lb of Grandevo and another 2.5 of venerate just because of price they said and I def use it. Great shelf life !
Last edited:
Idlewilder
Underground Chucker
biocontrols like Grandevo and venerate are a game changer vs harsh chemicals and traditional pesticides. Not only are your not gonnea stres ur plants but even if bugs are not there if they ever come you got the multi mode/ISR defense but also making sure your not stressing a plant out in a IPM or degrading your medicine doing so. Before I did biocontrols I stopped foliars at week 3/4 and such rules exp outdoors you’re asking for failures. So for companies to discover natures safe defenses are a gem for a grower. companies like marrone study thousands of diff bacteria/fungi and test if they can be controlled with such. doing so in last 10 years we as farmers are lacking if not the safest tools against mold,pest and making a plant naturally defendable instead of using things that are just cover ups and Also to stress the plant or make super bugs aka resistance issues. Even organic things like neem , or Soap cannot be used in flower but also can ask for major issues when something like Grandevo or venerate as a example does nothing but defend and also have many multi modes of defenses. not only that it’s such a beneficial ipm too; and cheap enough to use I use it on all my grapes, veggies, fruit outdoors . easy and it feels nice being able to keep pest pressures gone or low and not use bad chemicals anymore
safety and use in flower
I was curious about these things before using biocontrols like Grandevo or venerate on cannabis , exp in flower stage , but before they even had cannabis label aka cg ( certified approvable in all rx/rec states for commerical and listed safe for flower ) so I asked since tobacco was listed, will they answer it for cannabis “hemp”?. Also asked their suggestion What are the best foliar methods to be used with these proeducts and things I need to know for cannabis foliars , marrone had a lot of good suggestions and I have used their sop/suggestions in mine, works great . well marrone ( company that owned Grandevo/venerate) told me honestly how it works ( read the links about both products and wiki) They like many other companies look in labs and look at diff species of bacteria/fungi and use as a biocontrol and see the functions and modes. these products not only show their better ipm tool because of cost, no stress to plant, broad compatible, no ppe, can’t kill a bee but kill over 300 species of soft bodied includ(ng broad and hemp russet mites. key is to know like any biocontrol is using it accordly and knowing it’s limits. Meaning if u have a pest pressure above low, u need to mix in and rotate with a knockout. in which I don’t add knockouts and remove from my schedule Inless pest pressure exists.
point is do math of any tradional oil based or soap and see which one favors you in end and which is more harmful to ur ecosystem and plants/medium? I can handle the cost of biocontrols cause typically they are under 50 cents per gallon and flower stage safe. you mix on oils and npk and non biocontrols I cna def see u stressing a plant in bloom or degrading it. But spraying heat killed bacteria wont and also give you a IPM safety if the pest pressure occurs they can’t damage ur crop. Another thing is being a speciality crop i Don’t wanna damage anythjng but also stress it. many tradional pest/fungicides I think do and really aren’t needed for successful IPM treatments. if Anything they should ban many pesticides that have shown on large scale monocropping of ag that we are def having super bugs because of use of harsh chemicals only and not realizing how much nature does this buffer and balance.
the biggest mistake and blame via foliar exp in flower not working out and is Easily overlooked on how important it is by treating it “flower foliar” cause otherwise u can do more harm than good via foliars . Meaning spraying too hard on the plant hen there’s buds , I only spray for 5-10 seconds fine mist per 4x4 ( recommend a fine spray , like paint sprayer ). Then I make sure I have 2-3 hr min darkness, after spraying i make sure airflow is running and turn back hvac/deh . the key was droplet size and not overdoing The foliar cause if I saw degradation on my plants from this I would of stopped years ago . I pay and go longer than most for even ocd level dry/process/cure so doing that would be madness. Read the sop and it explains better and more details from pest info to what to do and misc.
as example of venerate and Grandevo, it’s function and info
Grandevo (Chromobacterium subtsugae)
Chromobacterium - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Grandevo® | Insect Management | Pro Farm Group - Formerly Marrone Bio Innovations
A next-generation bioinsecticide, Grandevo offers growers long-lasting, cross-spectrum control to strengthen performance of modern pest management programs.
and
venerate aka Burkholderia spp. strain A396
Burkholderia - Wikipedia
Venerate® | Reduce Insect Resistance | Marrone Bio
Venerate® XC Bioinsecticide is effective to control aphids, leafhopper, mites, thrips and reduce insect resistance as part of your IPM or IRM program.
are both made by heat killing bacteria so they do same function as if they were alive to the pest, the pest is attracted to the terps of the microbes , the bugs cannnot become resistant . Why not use one If non resistance ? like anything if you were only offfered one food and have other options . Like anything the pest will than pick other options in trials aka ur plant so switching from Grandevo to venerate has been proven by diff terps attractions and diff modes of attack/isr .
5+ years growing with it indoors and out and its even approved for flower stage cannabis in all states and Canada . u wont fail a lab test from it and it wont degrade ur quality in anyway. Key is in flower to mist ur plants fully but no runoff/droples and use a fine mist (5-10 sec per 4x4) use a wet agent (i pefer yucca) after spray return on majority on fans. Schedule ur spray on min of Having lights off for 2-3hrs.
The benefits of these products vs oils and tradional pesticides is it can be used in flower np but also the mode of grandevo n venerate is broad and works against mant species of pest but also is safe on predators, beneficial bacteria and bees. plus you can use these products if u need knockout if it’s a not singular omly product. Meaning example 1, you see mite. for first 15 days after pest pressure of two Spot mite apply knockout and biocontrol at egg rate of 3 days. Rotate from Grandevo and venerate but if behind 3/4th week of bloom for cannabis mix in a knockout till u see pest pressure lower with ethier biocontrol . look at sop for better details.
awesome video on the lab that makes Grandevo/venerate and other biocontrols. Soo cool!
—-
suggestion for wholesaler for biocontrols & bug experts:
been buying from them nearly 10 years, they are great at pest id confirming and saved me a bunch when I even thought a bug was a pest and whatcha know they corrected me and saved me from killing beneficial bugs. thats if not one of the other biggest things people need to do, always pest Id confirm extactly what bug that is, so many look similiar or need a completely diff ipm for sucess.
Supplier of Beneficial Insects, Natural Fungicides & Insecticides, Sticky Tape, and Pheromone Lures - Evergreen Growers Supply, LLC
Evergreen Growers Supply, LLC - Distributor of beneficial insects for biological control of aphids, flies, fungus gnats, leaf miners, mealybugs, mites, thrips, whiteflies, scales. We also offer complimentary products such as Actinovate ag, Actinovate sp, Actino-Iron, Met52, NoFy and much more.www.evergreengrowers.com
for marrone products, I google and look around but honestly shipping is what got me and I asked my local hydro and got me everything I wanted recently. Shoot I bought 2 bags of 6 lb of Grandevo and another 2.5 of venerate just because of price they said and I def use it. Great shelf life !
I appreciate all of the info you’ve shared. I ordered Venerate and Grandevo and will familiarize myself with the SOP you provided. Thanks again!
HBZ
❄️🔥💎 FORAGER of FIRE 💎🔥❄️
Following @BH advice with the Grandevo.. Venerate.. Regalia was the best decision I've made as a grower period..You'll be extremely pleased with the results...I swear my plants look twice as healthy in the short time I've been using it..I've used it on late bud against my extreme will not too... Again...They just look better! The product takes zero hit either?
The products are good but are only a small part of ipm. Getting advice from bh can be a bit like drinking from a fire hose, he pretty well outlined the key elements of a complete ipm program in those last couple posts. Trick is to apply them consistently in a way that is relevant to you.
Wow, those puffy pistols are a trip lol
Everything is looking great!
Idlewilder
Underground Chucker
Stardawg around 7 weeks
Rainbow Belts #20
Looking forward to smoking these
Rainbow Belts #20
Looking forward to smoking these
Always been curious about the Stawdawg cut! Looking forward to your smoke report.
Man I've been curious about both of those!!! For real. Heck yeah. Lookin bomb that's for sure
Bigg upps to my man @Idlewilder for hooking me up with the candymac!!!! Thank u for being generous with your genetics and doing your part to advance this plant we all love so much… what are the numbers on the vial? Is that phenos?
Idlewilder
Underground Chucker
Glad they landed and more than happy to share. The numbers are for the mother plants. I’ll dm you the descriptions
Idlewilder
Underground Chucker
They’ll be coming down in a couple weeks so I’ll be sure to post my impressions
Idlewilder
Underground Chucker
Might as well
