Lockedin's 4x4 of questionable decisions

[Lockedin]

Hi all! I'm still very new to growing; this is my third grow - second in this 4x4.
All comments welcome.

Setup - Covid budget severely impacted my build out.
Week 2 of 12/12
4x4x7' tent --- Lights, Viparspectra VA-1200 Dimmable & 3 Chinese burples
FFOF / 25% chunky perlite --- bottom 1/2 mixed with Dr. Earth Flower Girl 3-9-4 full strength --- 5 gal fabric pots --- 9 plants.

STRAINS
OG Kush - Humboldt Seed Co. feminized. - 5 plants
Strawberry Kush - From a growmie of mine. - 4 plants

Problems --- 9 plants is a crowd.
I started 4 OG Kush, but only 3 popped. So I started 3 more and they all popped. -- Original plan was to manifold these as I did on my second grow, then SCROG them.
The OG didn't respond well to their first (plastic) pots, and I made it worse by topping while they were there. They recovered, and are now appx. 14" off the soil
BUT:
I had a cabinet that I started 4 Strawberry Kush for an LST grow - until I realized it was a fire hazard. So the Strawberry Kush are in the 4x4 too.
I really like the LST grow, but I need to start it later - they're about 6" tall and 18" around.

FUNGUS GNATS - infestation.
Pretty sure they came from one of the Strawberry Kush (SK) pots - that plant looks sickly compared to the others, though she's recovering well now.
Methods used - Dried out soil - diatomaceous earth - 2" layer of perlite - wiped floor & walls with citric acid / soap solution.

Timer malfunction and the lights stayed on an extra 6 hours. Next dark cycle was 12.5 hours hoping I didn't jack 'em up.

Lights are off right now, but here's some recent shots.

Group shot from a few days ago - The little girl in the 1g might get gifted to my aunt.


One of the LST'd plants. The "Bottom" of the plant is at the top of the picture. Cool how the Christmas tree shape looks on its side.


Upskirt shot from a few days ago. The main stalk got a lot of twist to it from manipulating branches to expose them to light.

 

[jaguarlax]

Things don’t look too out of hand over here. I like all the detail you use in your journaling. I think it will be very helpful for you to reflect back on.

 

[Gentlemancorpse]

I agree with @jaguarlax nothing looks too far out of sort to me... I'm sure they'll rock out for you. Love the manifolding/LST!

 

[Skunky Dunk Farms]

Welcome to the camp, grow looks solid.
Best to get on top of the gnats for sure.

 

[horribleherk]

Looks like you're well on your way I just chopped my 4x4 I used to run 9 plants in a 3x3 so it can be done I'm going back with 6 plants again in my 4x4 & I'm keeping an open mind to 4 plant grows as well

 

[Lockedin]

Looks like you're well on your way I just chopped my 4x4 I used to run 9 plants in a 3x3 so it can be done I'm going back with 6 plants again in my 4x4 & I'm keeping an open mind to 4 plant grows as well

I think 9 will prove to be a bit much.
The original idea was to have them in separate enclosures, but after building the second enclosure, I realized it was a fire hazard. ? So they're all in one tent.
I'm pretty sure that a couple things stunted them a bit, so I might be ok.

1 - I overwatered the OG Kush when they were babies. This was compounded by starting in tiny plastic pots.
A - As an experiment, I started the Strawberry Kush in 1gal fabric - Worked great! I'll be doing that from now on.

2 - I quadlined the OG Kush - while overwatering. It worked great last grow, but I don't think the OG Kush liked it too much.
-- They've recovered and are growing nicely; I think they're going to get unruly soon --- a good problem considering their start.
A - Planning to LST them on the next grow - a lot less stress on the plants and it seems much faster and more efficient.


3 - I should have waited for a little more height before starting LST on the Strawberry Kush; they're REALLY low to the soil. Week 3 pruning should help, but the main stalks are only an inch or two from the surface.
-- They're exploding nicely, and I think I can visualize how to manage any stretch they might have, but they could have been much larger.
* - I really like flat LST so far. All the organization of a mainline, but only topping one time to redirect growth laterally.


One of the Strawberry Kush was the source of the fungus gnats. It's recovering, but looks terrible & is growing VERY slowly.
To my noob eye it looks like her pot was the source of the fungus gnats and they tore up her roots.
!!!!! Now it looks a bad mag deficiency. Concerned it might herm if the stress keeps up. ------------ Any hints appreciated!


Group shot - you can see that I stunted them - the OG are hardly 14in. tall (although they have barely started to stretch). Tougher to tell the growth on the Strawberry since they're bent and twisted for light exposure.

 

[horribleherk]

I use those bbq skewers as well as bread ties , wire & twine to train & different strains behave different that's why I like to take notes & clone that way going into the second round you're armed with a bit of knowledge

 

[Senokai]

Welcome! to pH!!

 

[Lockedin]

I use those bbq skewers as well as bread ties , wire & twine to train & different strains behave different that's why I like to take notes & clone that way going into the second round you're armed with a bit of knowledge

Really excited to try my hand at cloning; definitely another step down the rabbit hole.

For now, being on my third grow, I'm still thrilled at getting them from bean to bowl.

Walking before I run, so to speak. But no reason I can't study up on a marathon!

 

[horribleherk]

Really excited to try my hand at cloning; definitely another step down the rabbit hole.

For now, being on my third grow, I'm still thrilled at getting them from bean to bowl.

Walking before I run, so to speak. But no reason I can't study up on a marathon!

Cloning for me is easy its popping seeds that gives me problems I use the old dome , hazmat & single t-5 but I used to use a CFL & one of those foil jiffy pots with the clear dome works too I use the rockwool cubes

 

[Lockedin]

Cloning for me is easy its popping seeds that gives me problems I use the old dome , hazmat & single t-5 but I used to use a CFL & one of those foil jiffy pots with the clear dome works too I use the rockwool cubes

Next step for sure - makes sense in the larger scheme of self-sufficient growing - well, as much as I can be.

I've had nothing but good luck popping seeds - plate, 2 layers of paper towels, seeds, 2 layers of paper towels, plate.
Moisten 3-4x per day.
Plant when tap root is 1/2" or longer.
I was using small plastic pots, but I kept overwatering; so I tried 1 gal fabric pots for seedlings on this round --- perfect!
One light (260 w true), dimmed to 30% and hung at 24".

--- That said, I've only popped 20 of 21seeds lol

 

[HughJass69]

Looks like you're well on your way I just chopped my 4x4 I used to run 9 plants in a 3x3 so it can be done I'm going back with 6 plants again in my 4x4 & I'm keeping an open mind to 4 plant grows as well

9 in a 4x4 was a nightmare for me. 4 in a 4x4 is max what I will do. Maybe different genetics or soil grows but in coco my plants always get huge af. Get you some bti for them nats homie and cut back feed a bit.

 

[HughJass69]

Oh and if the seed is even barely cracked plant her. You don't want to be fooling with the tap root. Ever have it stick? That's you ripping all the fine hairs off the tap and damaging potential root development. I soak for 12-24 in a cup or water then straight into the dirt. They always come up quick.

 

[Lockedin]

Oh and if the seed is even barely cracked plant her. You don't want to be fooling with the tap root. Ever have it stick? That's you ripping all the fine hairs off the tap and damaging potential root development. I soak for 12-24 in a cup or water then straight into the dirt. They always come up quick.

Huh - I never had any of them stick at all - one dud - but other than that they all crack & plant nicely.
I think the paper towel method will rip up roots if they aren't kept wet - not moist - wet. That's what I was shown anyway...
I have a pretty decent pool of "experimental" seeds - I think I'll try cracking a couple that way on my next grow. Maybe I'll like it better!
--- I'll bet our methods are pretty similar in action, I just wait for the tap root to show before planting.

 

[BobBitchen]

Cheers Lockedin,
9 in a 3x3 works fine , Id suggest using 3gal, enough for a tent grow IMHO.
As far as cloning, I also suggest looking into a Clone King , Iv had years of 99.9% success with my original unit.

 

[Lockedin]

9 in a 4x4 was a nightmare for me. 4 in a 4x4 is max what I will do. Maybe different genetics or soil grows but in coco my plants always get huge af. Get you some bti for them nats homie and cut back feed a bit.

Just re-reading - BTI?
I used an integrated approach using a few methods at once:
Dried the soil & wiped the floor & walls with citric acid / soap solution, top dressed Diatomaceous Earth & perlite*, watered, re-applied DE & wiped the floor walls with CA/soap solution. ----- *not really sure what the perlite does aside from holding down the DE (dusty stuff).
Sounds like a lot, but it's really not, and it's all non-toxic ( wear PPE - Citric Acid SUCKS in the eyes... trust me )

Definitely going to straight water on this one for a while.
If she doesn't start looking better soon though, I'll probably put her out on the patio - I'll start worrying about stress hermming otherwise.

 

[BH]

Just re-reading - BTI?
I used an integrated approach using a few methods at once:
Dried the soil & wiped the floor & walls with citric acid / soap solution, top dressed Diatomaceous Earth & perlite*, watered, re-applied DE & wiped the floor walls with CA/soap solution. ----- *not really sure what the perlite does aside from holding down the DE (dusty stuff).
Sounds like a lot, but it's really not, and it's all non-toxic ( wear PPE - Citric Acid SUCKS in the eyes... trust me )

Definitely going to straight water on this one for a while.
If she doesn't start looking better soon though, I'll probably put her out on the patio - I'll start worrying about stress hermming otherwise.

BTI is a fungus for prevention for fungus gnats = the fungus (BTI) fungus gnat larva (1st stage , that’s way its key to apply before you have teen stage and not ”larvae cause it does not kill that”) and apply at a daily basis of BTI to make sure your fungus gnat is dead before they can ever stage to the next. They reproduce very fast once warmer and certain environment gives them ( like many pest ) .

Liquid BTI is soo much more concentrated than the Mosquito bits and also has a longer shelf life. My only suggestion is use it every watering not the “every 7-14 days” on what the label says, they are referring to killing off mosquitoes more or less ( I talked the reps on the phone , can’t really over do it)

Amazon product ASIN B0006JLMQG
—

for teen-flyer stage : you need some yellow traps /cards at least = at least to know if you got a incoming issue + catch any cause they reproduce sooo quicikly

“During their seven to 10-day life span, females may lay up to 200 eggs into the cracks and crevices of growing media. Moist-growing media containing high amounts of peat moss are particularly attractive to adult females. At typical room temperatures (65 F to 75 F) the life cycle (egg to adult) may be completed in three to four weeks (Figure 1) with continuous reproduction occurring yearround on indoor plants. Fungus gnat adults do not bite but may drink water residing on plant leaves and/or on the surface of growing media.”

Fungus Gnats as Houseplant and Indoor Pests - 5.584 - Extension

Fungus gnats are small delicate bodied flies that commonly develop in the growing medium of houseplants. Larvae of fungus gnats feed on algae, fungi and plant roots in growing medium. Adults do not bite or feed. Fungus gnats can be controlled by allowing the growing medium to dry between...

extension.colostate.edu

——-

if infections shows and your grow is showing at any way the fungus gnat is gaining population , I would high;y suggest “ method 2” - I would highly suggest using this method two defend but also wipe em out per say . your crop is worth it and a pest like FG can reduce your overrall yields by quite a bit if not corrected . I have def found that BTI failed on me ( seen this happen on a lot of people, nematodes won’t ever inless they are from a bad source, key is good source )


Nemasys aka fungus gnat/thrip nemoatode, OMG ROCKS!
= the do the purpose of killing the larvae (like the BTI , just better and way faster) man i you can see a difference in days if you got a bad infection with this combo. I know I did

Steinernema feltiae Beneficial Nematodes

Target Pests: Larval stages of fungus gnats (Bradysia spp.), adult and pupal stages of western flower thrips (Frankliniella occidentalis) Description: Beneficial nematodes are microscopic worms that attack and kill targeted insects, without affecting any other organisms. Within the infected...

www.evergreengrowers.com

suggestion for anyone who does veg and flower rooms (2 rooms) wait intill the 2-6th week of veg and then apply to both flower and veg room so you don’t have to re buy another cycle of nematodes ( this is my 4th time doing this and doing that = no issues if so)

Rove beetles: This is the IPM for fungus gnats for eating your adult stage pests ( many pests too) cool thing it will survive even multiple cycles if you treat em good .

Rove beetle (Dalotia coriaria) or Atheta coriaria

Rove beetles (Dalotia coriaria), formerly known as Atheta coriaria, are used primarily to assist in the control of shore flies and fungus gnats and other small arthropods in the soil or planting media. They also help control soil stages of thrips and feed on most other small soil organisms such...

www.evergreengrowers.com

 

[Lockedin]

BTI is a fungus for prevention for fungus gnats = the fungus (BTI) fungus gnat larva (1st stage , that’s way its key to apply before you have teen stage and not ”larvae cause it does not kill that”) and apply at a daily basis of BTI to make sure your fungus gnat is dead before they can ever stage to the next. They reproduce very fast once warmer and certain environment gives them ( like many pest ) .

Liquid BTI is soo much more concentrated than the Mosquito bits and also has a longer shelf life. My only suggestion is use it every watering not the “every 7-14 days” on what the label says, they are referring to killing off mosquitoes more or less ( I talked the reps on the phone , can’t really over do it)

Amazon product ASIN B0006JLMQG

—

for teen-flyer stage : you need some yellow traps /cards at least = at least to know if you got a incoming issue + catch any cause they reproduce sooo quicikly

“During their seven to 10-day life span, females may lay up to 200 eggs into the cracks and crevices of growing media. Moist-growing media containing high amounts of peat moss are particularly attractive to adult females. At typical room temperatures (65 F to 75 F) the life cycle (egg to adult) may be completed in three to four weeks (Figure 1) with continuous reproduction occurring yearround on indoor plants. Fungus gnat adults do not bite but may drink water residing on plant leaves and/or on the surface of growing media.”

Fungus Gnats as Houseplant and Indoor Pests - 5.584 - Extension

Fungus gnats are small delicate bodied flies that commonly develop in the growing medium of houseplants. Larvae of fungus gnats feed on algae, fungi and plant roots in growing medium. Adults do not bite or feed. Fungus gnats can be controlled by allowing the growing medium to dry between...

extension.colostate.edu

——-

if infections shows and your grow is showing at any way the fungus gnat is gaining population , I would high;y suggest “ method 2” - I would highly suggest using this method two defend but also wipe em out per say . your crop is worth it and a pest like FG can reduce your overrall yields by quite a bit if not corrected . I have def found that BTI failed on me ( seen this happen on a lot of people, nematodes won’t ever inless they are from a bad source, key is good source )


Nemasys aka fungus gnat/thrip nemoatode, OMG ROCKS!
= the do the purpose of killing the larvae (like the BTI , just better and way faster) man i you can see a difference in days if you got a bad infection with this combo. I know I did

Steinernema feltiae Beneficial Nematodes

Target Pests: Larval stages of fungus gnats (Bradysia spp.), adult and pupal stages of western flower thrips (Frankliniella occidentalis) Description: Beneficial nematodes are microscopic worms that attack and kill targeted insects, without affecting any other organisms. Within the infected...

www.evergreengrowers.com

suggestion for anyone who does veg and flower rooms (2 rooms) wait intill the 2-6th week of veg and then apply to both flower and veg room so you don’t have to re buy another cycle of nematodes ( this is my 4th time doing this and doing that = no issues if so)

Rove beetles: This is the IPM for fungus gnats for eating your adult stage pests ( many pests too) cool thing it will survive even multiple cycles if you treat em good .

Rove beetle (Dalotia coriaria) or Atheta coriaria

Rove beetles (Dalotia coriaria), formerly known as Atheta coriaria, are used primarily to assist in the control of shore flies and fungus gnats and other small arthropods in the soil or planting media. They also help control soil stages of thrips and feed on most other small soil organisms such...

www.evergreengrowers.com

Killer info! --- pun intended

I did industrial pest elimination for a season - never dealt with fungus gnats.
But given the toxic soups, fogs and poisons the company had us applying it's no surprise that I never saw them - only rats & roaches really.

Diatomaceous Earth was in our protocols, but nobody used it since it blows everywhere and our clients wanted instant kills - they like to see bodies after an infestation.
I used DE on this infestation - it's action is to cut up the insects & larvae as they touch the surface or crawl through the soil. It's also a dessicant, so the little critters get hit two ways.
Bonus - it gives the plants a bit of silica.
I mixed it into my top-dress & watered to get it into the soil, then applied a layer to the surface that formed a light crust.
Between that & that citric acid / soap (contact killer) they were gone in a few days.

I'll probably try using the nemas & beetles next time I run into them - but without the DE.
Seems like a more permanent solution, where I might find myself drying and applying again before this grow is over.

 

[HughJass69]

I don't like fucking with de myself cause what it'll do to your lungs. Also when wet it's not as effective. The perlite creates a barrier that dries and helps keep them out or the dirt to reproduce. Did that with lava rocks on top to keep dust down. Combined with bti i never saw them bastartds again. Nematodes are great but they were $ last time I checked

 

[Lockedin]

11/29 - Small Update

Pistils on all but one plant.
- I think that one might go out to the patio - I don't want that much stress during flower in my tent - she just might be a he....

My decision to run all 9 and use 2 different methods on 2 different strains seems worse and worse - I'm managing right now, but they're growing entirely different from each other.
If I hadn't stunted them early, I'd be in real trouble; but I think I'll be OK. Lesson learned.

Pruning / Defol - I decided to come a bit short of defol. I feel like leaves that aren't causing circulation/moisture or shade issues should be left to continue photosynthesis.

OG Kush - Lollipopped - they were getting thick in the undercarriage and none of it looked like it would ever be anything. Pruned shade leaves.
Canopy is about 2 inches thick right now, but I took the LST off, so that may change soon.
LST Restraints removed. Pretty confused looking canopy tops - but a lot of flowers, so I'm not unhappy!

Strawberry Kush - The sick one is still sick, probably going on the patio just to see what happens.
The others are lush and have a lot of branches; although the number is inverse to the size - largest plant has 13 branches, then 17 & 19 respectively.
I accidentally defol'd the largest plant (pictured) - the lower number of branches and high number of bong hits meant exposing "blank" areas faster than expected.
The other two have been left pretty lush for now - I couldn't accurately see my cuts on the interior, so I left a lot of leaves to avoid feeling that "extra" resistance on the shears.
Really fun seeing the plant's branch structure like this, and it seems like a very efficient way to maximize my plants.

Here's the pics: