Reaching out to Black Strap users

Captain Sternn

Captain Sternn

Amicable Cannastronaut
I'm knocking around using some Black Strap during this flowering season, for the reason that my understanding is that it can help enhance flavors a bit, besides whatever else. So let me run down briefly what I use and if you're a Black Strap user you'll take time to weigh in, I hope.

I use salts, 20-20-20 until flowering, and then this year I'm using a new-to-me flowering formula that mates up nicely (I think) with the 20/x3. The new flowering formula is 1-34-32, and I give it along with the 20/x3 but at only a half a dose on the flowering formula. I've given that about every 5 days and have given it probably at least 6 times. They all seem to have tolerated it well right from start. I'm pretty happy with what I'm seeing too, those gals are back there building bud every day.

What I'm wondering is, if I were to use some Black Strap, am I ok to just slip it into a plain water watering and keep on with my salts schedule, or leave off with one or both of the formulas to work Black Strap in ? I wouldn't want to ditch the salts too often to get BS worked in, I could cut the 20/x3 to a half dose every other time if that helped work in the BS.

If I give it, I'm anticipating using 1/4 tsp. per gallon but I'm also open to suggestion on dosing. And also curious about what exactly BS users see as the benefit from it.

Thanks
 
Ok here goes. This is one of those old school things people do, I'll try to explain my thoughts on it.

First, keep in mind I think it drops ph. Imo that's the main reason not to overdo it. Plus a decent t amount of iron in it.
Do you ph when you feed with salts? I assume so. I haven't used salts in at least ten years ...

The question is what is the mechanism of action, why use molassis.
My understanding- feeds the microbes. Feed them so they break down nutrients better.
Secondly, I think it has both calcium and magnesium, plus iron. (This would make a huge difference in a grow that was deficiency in cal or mag, mag specifically more of that I think.)

Now microbes are somewhat less important with salts I think? Isn't the idea that the nutes are readily available to the plant, cutting out the microbe middleman?

Idk. There are my thoughts.
I run organic in peat based soil mix. I use molassis when making compost tea, and sometimes just to add to plain watering.
1 tsp per gallon. As much as a tablespoon, but I do wonder about ph at that amount... and the iron.

20240830_121617.jpg20240830_121608.jpg20240830_121646.jpg20240830_121651.jpg
 
Hey @Captain Sternn , your outdoor garden, is looking beautiful this year.
I don't know if this helps, but I have used Molasses in flower , quite often. I feed with Jacks nutrients and add the molasses a couple of times, during flower. Either way, I've never noticed any problems, when I've added with the nutrients , or without.
I'm not sure if it helps the flavor, sure doesn't hurt, but I'm pretty sure it gives the microbial life in the soil a boost.
Keep up the good work, can't wait to see how everybody's gardens finish this year.
Hopefully we all get a indian summer with perfect conditions. Probably shouldn't have wrote that. 😆
 
Yeah I pretty much agree with the guys above, I used to be an organic guy and I used molasses a lot.

You can get a molasses with or without sulfur. Get the kind without if you're an organic guy cultivating your microbes. Sulfur will harm the micro-horde, remember the first antibiotics were based on sulfur and they were very adept at killing microorganisms.

Molasses will drop your ph. My tap water would run about 7.5 and molasses would drop it about one full point to 6.5....

Obviously it was helping, but I never did a scientific comparison.

I would use it with just water, so that no kind of reactions could occur with other ions or micronutrients.
 
Captain Sternn said:
I'm knocking around using some Black Strap during this flowering season, for the reason that my understanding is that it can help enhance flavors a bit, besides whatever else. So let me run down briefly what I use and if you're a Black Strap user you'll take time to weigh in, I hope.

I use salts, 20-20-20 until flowering, and then this year I'm using a new-to-me flowering formula that mates up nicely (I think) with the 20/x3. The new flowering formula is 1-34-32, and I give it along with the 20/x3 but at only a half a dose on the flowering formula. I've given that about every 5 days and have given it probably at least 6 times. They all seem to have tolerated it well right from start. I'm pretty happy with what I'm seeing too, those gals are back there building bud every day.

What I'm wondering is, if I were to use some Black Strap, am I ok to just slip it into a plain water watering and keep on with my salts schedule, or leave off with one or both of the formulas to work Black Strap in ? I wouldn't want to ditch the salts too often to get BS worked in, I could cut the 20/x3 to a half dose every other time if that helped work in the BS.

If I give it, I'm anticipating using 1/4 tsp. per gallon but I'm also open to suggestion on dosing. And also curious about what exactly BS users see as the benefit from it.

Thanks
Click to expand...
IMO, adding molasses to soil you feed with salts is a waste of time and molasses. The salts kill the very microbes that you need to make any use from the molasses. Molasses has a feel good vibe and yes, a lot of folks do it but that doesn't change the physics of the situation.

1-34-32? I think I know what product you are talking about. What is the source of that massive P number? And when is that P available to the plant? I never used it but based on using 10-30-20, I only use high P sparingly because it makes a lot of branch. Like I'll water in my outdoors only twice with it. I'm not sure what the protocol is for that 1-34-32. How often are you using it?
What about nitrogen? That 1 for N sounds a little thin :)
 
First I'll say, everyone try to play nice. I'd love to hear both sides explained in simple terms, and respectfully.

I have theorized previously (to myself) that molassis actual benefits could just be from the calcium, magnesium and other micronutrients... but it is commonly said that it feeds microbes increasing soil biome health. So?! Is it an old farmer's tale or scientifically proven?

Question 1- does molassis "feed" microbes and improve the soil microbiology

Question 2- what impact do synthetic nutrients (salts) have on soil microbiome

@Chefdave at the very least molassis could provide micronutrients that may be lacking in the soil. Not the only source, but could supplement. If the soil is amended properly this probably isn't needed as far as the micronutrients. Organic soil grown anyways, synthetic is a different game.

@DemonTrich I would tend to agree, moderate amount of sulpher I would think is fine. But too much certainly could cause problems.
 
Molasses (and equivalent products) in turn feed the microbes in the soil. Which helps the plant uptake vital nutes. If a product introduced to the roots (soil/coco/rw/hydro) made the end result flowers taste like said nute imput, then why haven't we added (say faygo) to get the flowers to taste like the faygo...or you younger gen, mt dew
 
LG/ said:
First I'll say, everyone try to play nice. I'd love to hear both sides explained in simple terms, and respectfully.

I have theorized previously (to myself) that molassis actual benefits could just be from the calcium, magnesium and other micronutrients... but it is commonly said that it feeds microbes increasing soil biome health. So?! Is it an old farmer's tale or scientifically proven?

Question 1- does molassis "feed" microbes and improve the soil microbiology

Question 2- what impact do synthetic nutrients (salts) have on soil microbiome

@Chefdave at the very least molassis could provide micronutrients that may be lacking in the soil. Not the only source, but could supplement. If the soil is amended properly this probably isn't needed as far as the micronutrients. Organic soil grown anyways, synthetic is a different game.

@DemonTrich I would tend to agree, moderate amount of sulpher I would think is fine. But too much certainly could cause problems.
Click to expand...
He is using a base salt which has all the micro nutes in it. Yes all sugars feed microbes from molasses to dextrose to cane sugar. Molasses has cal mag iron b6 but at fractional amounts. Far less expensive if already using salts to just add cal nitrate and magnesium sulfate for any def. Micro nutrient def are rare. If growing organic different story, I was answering his question on his style(salts) of growing. But it is disheartening to have people state things like salts kill microbes which is proven false because someone may listen and not reap the benefits of fungi and bacteria because they use salts. There are too many people that listen to b.s. because it's what they have heard or read on a blog.
 
Microbial life can stand a certain concentration of salts, or of sulfur. Its always about concentration. Remember that any organism has ways of becoming resistant to things they are exposed to if those things are in a weakened form. That's kinda the basis of acquired immunity.

Even if the concentration is borderline the question becomes 'am I killing them faster than they reproduce'? There are a lot of variables.

I used to make and use a product called em-1 when I did organic. Some of you have heard of it I'm sure. Once the root zone was colonized, I was using salts and teas and em-1 and it all worked together.

It's always the totality, rather than any single magic bullet.

I would still do organic but

a) the soil here is clay and it sucks

b) two different suppliers infested me with near-unkillable spidermites

c) I found another system with coco that I'm happy with.....
 
Chefdave said:
99 percent of deficiencies in canna are mag or cal which are normally caused by growers error(lockout)For cannabis cal and mag are considered secondary macro nutrients.
Click to expand...
Secondary macro, I like that. I always referred to them as the main two micronutrients. But secondary macro makes alot more sense.
You don't know what you don't know! Referring to myself of course haha
 
oldtimes said:
Microbial life can stand a certain concentration of salts, or of sulfur. Its always about concentration. Remember that any organism has ways of becoming resistant to things they are exposed to if those things are in a weakened form. That's kinda the basis of acquired immunity.

Even if the concentration is borderline the question becomes 'am I killing them faster than they reproduce'? There are a lot of variables.

I used to make and use a product called em-1 when I did organic. Some of you have heard of it I'm sure. Once the root zone was colonized, I was using salts and teas and em-1 and it all worked together.

It's always the totality, rather than any single magic bullet.

I would still do organic but

a) the soil here is clay and it sucks

b) two different suppliers infested me with near-unkillable spidermites

c) I found another system with coco that I'm happy with.....
Click to expand...
Concentration, I like that too. Definitely a major factor.
 
Will worms live in soil that has been fertilized with salts?
What about bacteria?


I meant bacteria earlier....microbes can survive but I seriously doubt they are doing much. Survive is not thrive.

Go ahead and drop some worms into that salted pot.............they leave very quickly or die. Salts are not organic and there is residuals that build up in every pot, every grow.

The one place the molasses could help if using 1-34-32 is by adding nitrogen :)
 
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