Totally Baffled

My first thought was what @Gweedo's Growroom offered as far as "anaerobic action" explaining this. I'll use this opportunity to continue the theme started by @Jewels concerning "retail solutions" and economizing nutrients etc.

I used Hydroguard in all my ebb/flow rez's with great success but found the price to be prohibitive. So I found an alternative that is much less expensive without sacrificing the results.

Let's see what is in Hydroguard:
View attachment 56301
Bacillus Amyloliquefaciens 0.038%

So in looking for an alternative source for this bacillus bacteria, we find this:
View attachment 56302
Bacillus Amyloliquefaciens 98.85%

I'll assume the Hydroguard is a gallon for purposes of calculating cost and volume for comparison. We can calculate how many gallons of 0.038% concentration stock solution we can make from the 98.85% Garden Friendly Fungicide alternative using the dilution formula:View attachment 56303

View attachment 56304
So I can make about 326 gallons of Hydroguard from the concentrated Garden Friendly Fungicide(GFF) using the exact same bacillus bacteria. Let's see how the cost breaks down:

View attachment 56305View attachment 56306
For the $27.92 cost of one 16oz bottle of GFF, I can make about 326 gallons of HG alternative.

If I were to buy 326 gallons of Hydroguard, it would cost (326gal x $57.73) $18,819.98

You may be able to get a better deal on the HG if you were to buy it by the drum, but realistically you would be purchasing it by the gallon as needed. The point still stands that you can make your own Hydroguard alternative for far less cost without sacrificing the results. I've been using the GFF for years and it works exactly the same as Hydroguard. I used to mix up a gallon of doubly concentrated HG alternative, but since the GFF is so much cheaper, I just add a few drops straight from the bottle into the rez once a week.
And I just found stuff called Mammoth P....it makes HydroGuard seem like a budget option.

On sale right now on Amazon Canada, for a 250ml bottle, for $118, down from $155

Unreal lol. It is more concentrated than HydroGuard, but not that much. Jeeeeeesh!

Amazon product
Looks like I can't get Southern AG GFF on CanAzon either. I can't find it. Maybe I can order from the US or find it somewhere other than Amazon.
 
There are real humans working at that company. I sent Jesse an email and it said
"Hey Jesse , I really like your product but I am poor,,, can you send me a discount code ? "

No shit.
I sent an email and never got a response. That's the only issue I have had with them, but it wasn't that important and I found my answer shortly after.

Cool I'll try that from now on lol
 
OK I think I've got it figured out.

While I eliminated humidity and temp early on as a cause, that may have been me jumping the gun a bit.

I've got the ppm's and the pH of the tipped out water, tested a day after sitting, both stable. Ppm's around 700-800 and pH 5.9-6.1 across randomly tested plants.

But I'm still seeing shorter, slightly pale plants with purple stalks......


1) I noticed that my 4x4 tent seemed more humid than my InkBird humidity sensor was saying the tent was at. So I threw in a couple other sensors of various brands and it was reading low by about 10 percentage points. So my 65% humidity cap was actually letting the tent hover in the 75% range. When the temps are about 23.5-24.5°C, that's a little too much humidity for older plants. That would make my VPD plummet and slow nutrient uptake.
So I've adjusted my InkBird RH sensor to match the other sensors.
This was the primary issue at first, but solving this wasn't the whole solution (see next points)..............

2) This Melon Farm 4x4 tent is a piss poor design. It only has a single rectangular mesh breather port down low. No 6" round intake so I can't add an intake booster, and no extra ports down low for passing piping or cords thru. And the location of the breather vent in comparison to the ceiling exhaust ports meant the air wasn't being drawn up and out properly or circulating the tent properly. It was siphoning the heat out but leaving humidity down low at the plants.....but the constant running fans was also possibly keeping the roots a little cool....maybe as well.
Who TF designs a grow tent with no lower ports and a single breather vent?
$&#@!? morons, that's who. Nevermind it doesn't have side doors either. Have fun getting at your back plants......Don't buy Melon Farm tents!

3) this 4x4 veg tent is the only tent in the whole bunch that doesn't have active data logging or any kind of controls I can interact with. It uses just one of those cheap sensors that you place in a convenient location to monitor, and all the controls are all analog sensors (a wall plug temperature sensor, and the InkBird RH sensor) that run on their own........
1615222019527.jpg
This readout is all I have, but the readout doesn't update as frequently as my other sensors (the others update once a minute) so I was unable to pick up patterns, only able to see what the readout said itermittently. It doesn't, for example, allow for me to see that the exhaust has been running for hours instead of a nice cyclical pattern.

Basically a perfect storm over the last few weeks......

So I've taken a dehumidifier and added it to that room. This should suck the moisture out of the air while also driving up the temps a little. This should raise my VPD and increase nutrient uptake. Combined with the balanced out ppm's and pH, I should hopefully start seeing even further improvements.

I am buying another 4x4 tent, moving everything from this $&#@& Melon Farm, and making this MF (suitable initials for this POS tent) back into strictly a drying tent. It's absolutely useless for growing in, especially for someone with a bad back, not having side windows.

I'll be going into the larger flowering tent soon anyways, and up-potting, so hopefully this is all behind me soon.
 
Sometimes a lot of little things add up to hard to figure. As i am getting ready to start my first real forays into indoor it is illuminating to watch these kinds of situations be worked out. I hope the new tent makes all the difference. Thanks for sharing your dilemma.
Hey, no worries. I like to journal/document it here so I can refer back as well, seeing I'm terrible at keeping actual notes around lol. They end up trashed, or coffee spilled all over them haha!

Yeah, indoor can be tricky sometimes. Humidity has always been the one I fight the most, especially since going LED.

I think I'm going to put the new tent downstairs on the tile as well. I think that naturally acts as a desiccant. (Also, more room on circuits downstairs). It's so much easier keeping the tents in my kitchen in the right zone for humidity. And my other upstairs tents are in a completely different room that is controlled itself with access to outside air ports and a dedictated dehumidifier.

I think it may just as much this ill equipped bedroom this tent is sitting in, as it is the tent itself.

Best of luck with your new venture!
 
Well, the problem has crept up again on the same plants, except in the tents that I've never had issues in. So something else is going on. You can see the slight paleness, kinked leaves and purple stalks....all classic 'overwater' symptoms.
1616987334132.jpg1616987354570.jpg


While I was on the right track with temp and humidity, in the end all I was doing was treating the symptoms. By increasing temps, and lowering humidity, I was lessening the effects of the real issue, which made things improve for a bit. But it wasn't the real core problem.

When a couple of my moms started doing it, I knew something else was going on.

What was different between all my great hempys and my my not so great hempys?

I finally found it.
Fucking peat pucks. Every single Hempy that did well or is currently doing well, was a clone or seed in a Rapid Rooter planted into the perlite. Every single plant that has given me issues is in a peat puck planted into perlite. When I increased temps and lowered the humidity, it allowed some of the water to vacate the pucks. With it colder and damper, they stayed wet for too long.

The peat is staying too wet around the "collar" of the plant. I can press on the peat and water squishes out.
Rapid Rooters, while comprised of peat also, are much much more airy than peat pucks as they are in a sponge like form. They actually start to dry out from one day to the next. The peat pucks don't dry out unless I water around the outer 2" edge of the medium, well away from them.

Fux sake, LOL. All 16 in my big tent are in peat pucks, so I'm gonna have to be careful with this batch, until I can make the swap over to Rapid Rooters all the way around.

At least I know now what the issue is for me, and hopefully someone else might find this thread if they have the same Hempy issues.
 

Dank Farrik

In Bloom
@DavidDellaRocco 100% perlite hempys ! (?)

Have you always done it that way or was it live and learn situation with other mediums like coco coir? Yield better? Any other benefits with 100% perlite vs other ? I have only done coco hempys and they worked great for my needs.. Do you just plug in the rapid rooter into perlite and water it until it hits the reservoir? Or re-pot the plug to bigger ones (100% perlite too?) and then add repot to final hempy with perlite??? I find with seeds especially the start is critical to get right..
 
Last edited:
@DavidDellaRocco 100% perlite hempys ! (?)

Have you always done it that way or was it live and learn situation with other mediums like coco coir? Yield better? Any other benefits with 100% perlite vs other ? I have only done coco hempys and they worked great for my needs..
Always straight perlite. But I think because I use the Coarse grade rather than Super Coarse, it holds just that much extra bit more water that I get away with it. The perlite is packed a little tighter so it retains a little more and wicks a little better.

I tried vermiculite but I always get weird issues even with very low ratios of it.

The drawback is I have to water every day, but I can automate it if I need.

I got real good yields this last round from the Hempys and I even borked the last few weeks of growth with an overdose. I failed to calibrate my TDS pen.
I haven't totalled everything yet because I am still finishing trimming, but yeah it was real good haul this round.
 
Do you just plug in the rapid rooter into perlite and water it until it hits the reservoir? Or re-pot the plug to bigger ones (100% perlite too?) and then add repot to final hempy with perlite??? I find with seeds especially the start is critical to get right..
Yes the last round, the RR's went straight into perlite. Then I try and water around it for a few days until I notice that typical Hempy jump, where you can just tell it's hit the rez.


This round, I used smaller 2 gallon buckets and then up-potted into the 5's. It's actually very much like soil but easier to handle, lighter, and much cleaner.

Apart from the peat pucks being an issue this round, it's so easy to deal with perlite lol. I love it.
 
Thanx @DavidDellaRocco ! I think I´m going to give it a go in few months.. Maybe make a side by side with coco and clones.. You have given me a refreshing inspiration to try new things.. :lazycouchlock:So, no coco hempys? May I ask why? Price? edit: found your grow journal, will look intel from there.
Mainly just because coco isn't readily available here, and the thought of adding "more Cal-Mag" I just couldn't do it lol

I may try it, I'm like you always morphing my setups to see what works best, but so far it's working very well with straight perlite.
 

woodhippy

In Bloom
And I just found stuff called Mammoth P....it makes HydroGuard seem like a budget option.

On sale right now on Amazon Canada, for a 250ml bottle, for $118, down from $155

Unreal lol. It is more concentrated than HydroGuard, but not that much. Jeeeeeesh!

Amazon product
Looks like I can't get Southern AG GFF on CanAzon either. I can't find it. Maybe I can order from the US or find it somewhere other than Amazon.
I looked at Mammoth P a few years ago. Could not eat that price. Think I will give the Southern Ag a go.
Thanks for the Heads Up Folks.
 
You wouldn't use the mammoth p in the same manner as the hydroguard, the mammoth is more for soil microbes and uptake of nutes, where the guard is more for keeping baddies from growing in your water or on your roots, they outcompete certain root ailments, just figured I'd add that in may explain the huge price difference lol I stuck with great white or recharge top watered into the hempys, and hydroguard in the rez every time, haven't seen any pythium since going that route, just springtails 😒😒😒
 
You wouldn't use the mammoth p in the same manner as the hydroguard, the mammoth is more for soil microbes and uptake of nutes, where the guard is more for keeping baddies from growing in your water or on your roots, they outcompete certain root ailments, just figured I'd add that in may explain the huge price difference lol I stuck with great white or recharge top watered into the hempys, and hydroguard in the rez every time, haven't seen any pythium since going that route, just springtails 😒😒😒
OK didn't realize the difference, thanks for clarifying!
 
Top Bottom