Totally Baffled

Hey there

So I am having an issue in one of my tents, and I am lost as to what is causing it.

In my 4x4 veg tent, I have 16 x 2.5 gallon Hempy buckets. In my mom/veg tent, I have 9 x 2.5 gallon Hempy buckets.

The ones in the mom/veg tent are great.

1614806392787.jpg

Nice color, perked up and reaching for the sky. No discoloration on the stems indicating moisture or pH problems.



What I can't figure out is why the 4x4 tent's buckets keep dropping to very low pH levels.
It's causing paleness, kinked leaves and general malaise. They are growing, just not looking good while doing it.

20210303_132804.jpg

I'm inputting 6.0 and my runoff is 5.2-5.3, which would inictate the pH levels in the buckets' rezzes are even lower. This explains why I am getting pale plants with purple stalks. But I can't explain why it's doing that in just the one tent.

I've eliminated ;

1. The Buckets :
A) drill hole height and size the same on all buckets

B) all are white and none have a black or dark wrap around them. Same in both tents so algae shouldn't be the issue. They all have algae around the drain holes, even the ones in the mom/veg tent that is 'behaving'

2. Solution :
A) input pH - same 5 gallon mix bucket

B) input TDS/EC - same 5 gallon mix bucket

I literally mix a 5 gallon pail and use it to feed all of them, so it should have nothing to do with different input pH/TDS/EC values.

3. Environment/Temp/Humidity - same typical ranges, and only extremes should explain the strange growth. My temps and RH are good in both tents. It shouldn't be this. This shouldn't make my rezzes' pH plummet to below 5.

4. Lights. The one and only real difference and the least likely explanation of all. It should have nothing to do with my lights.

5. Strains : I have the same strains in each of the tents so it shouldn't be that.

6. Medium : 100% perlite in all buckets, shouldn't be that

Totally confused. I will be up-potting soon, so whatever it is may remedy itself, but not knowing what's causing this is driving me nuts.
 
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Jewels

Tilts at Tables
Just basic questions.
Was there changes?
Start, or stop using any products?
Start, or stop using any equipment?

What about source water?
Tap or Reverse O. ?

A 60X leaf inspection would be in order.

I don't have any grand insights. Try to spend extended time with them.
Find again, the middle of the road.
 

AlienAthena

In Bloom
Hey there

So I am having an issue in one of my tents, and I am lost as to what is causing it.

In my 4x4 veg tent, I have 16 x 2.5 gallon Hempy buckets. In my mom/veg tent, I have 9 x 2.5 gallon Hempy buckets.

The ones in the mom/veg tent are great.

View attachment 56053

Nice color, perked up and reaching for the sky. No discoloration on the stems indicating moisture or pH problems.



What I can't figure out is why the 4x4 tent's buckets keep dropping to very low pH levels.
It's causing paleness, kinked leaves and general malaise. They are growing, just not looking good while doing it.

View attachment 56054

I'm inputting 6.0 and my runoff is 5.2-5.3, which would inictate the pH levels in the buckets' rezzes are even lower. This explains why I am getting pale plants with purple stalks. But I can't explain why it's doing that in just the one tent.

I've eliminated ;

1. The Buckets :
A) drill hole height and size the same on all buckets

B) all are white and none have a black or dark wrap around them. Same in both tents so algae shouldn't be the issue. They all have algae around the drain holes, even the ones in the mom/veg tent that is 'behaving'

2. Solution :
A) input pH - same 5 gallon mix bucket

B) input TDS/EC - same 5 gallon mix bucket

I literally mix a 5 gallon pail and use it to feed all of them, so it should have nothing to do with different input pH/TDS/EC values.

3. Environment/Temp/Humidity - same typical ranges, and only extremes should explain the strange growth. My temps and RH are good in both tents. It shouldn't be this. This shouldn't make my rezzes' pH plummet to below 5.

4. Lights. The one and only real difference and the least likely explanation of all. It should have nothing to do with my lights.

5. Strains : I have the same strains in each of the tents so it shouldn't be that.

6. Medium : 100% perlite in all buckets, shouldn't be that

Totally confused. I will be up-potting soon, so whatever it is may remedy itself, but not knowing what's causing this is driving me nuts.
Lol you ruled out the one thing that stands out to me when I look at your pictures. I think it’s your lights. I’m not sure but I think different spectrums can cause the plants to take up nutrients differently which is why a lot of folks use more Cal Mag when running LEDs. Whenever my plants look funky I add some recharge to the mix
 
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Lol you ruled out the one thing that stands out to me when I look at your pictures. I think it’s your lights. I’m not sure but I think different spectrums can cause the plants to take up nutrients differently which is why a lot of folks use more Cal Mag when running LEDs. Whenever my plants look funky I add some recharge to the mix
I should have added, they were acting funny under my 600W 3000K kit before I swapped it out and put in my new 4000K kit. That 600W kit has virtually the exact same spectrum as my mom/veg tent.
I just forgot to add it to the OP under "Lights"

Just basic questions.
Was there changes?
Start, or stop using any products?
Start, or stop using any equipment?

What about source water?
Tap or Reverse O. ?

A 60X leaf inspection would be in order.

I don't have any grand insights. Try to spend extended time with them.
Find again, the middle of the road.

No changes. Same solution mix being fed to both tents. Same nutes I've been using for a while as well.
Tap water. But it should affect both tents equally as I feed from the same bucket. A 5 gallon pail does both tents.
I do have Holland Secret Micro "Hard Water" blend coming on order though as my starting ppms are ~200. The Hard Water Micro should eliminate any phosphorous lockouts because of all the calcium in my water. But again, one tent is doing it one is not and it's the same solution.

I'd try to boost the microbial life in your buckets you may have an anaerobic action going on just a blind guess but microbes never hurt lol
I am using HydroGuard in all the Hempy buckets, but I did have a little bit of anaerobic going on in 2 out of 16 of them in the 4x4.

The roots were so jammed at the hole I had to poke my finger in there and loosen it up and suddenly a 1/4 gallon comes flying out lol. But it's all 16 of them doing it, not just those 2.
Definitely keeping the microbes going though, always........

Possibly switch the lights around to rule out that 1 small possibility but idk lol good luck

As I stated to @AlienAthena I forgot to mention I had a 3000K kit and it was doing the same.
But, you know, I wonder if I shouldn't try putting my 3000K kit back in, just to see even for a few days.

Hmmmm. I've never seen that drastic a difference in plants by simply switching spectrums/bulbs but as we all know, LEDs can be a "riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma" lol!



For now I just said screw it, mixed up another couple buckets of solution. Took them each into the bathroom, tipped out what was in them. Then I flushed the hell outta them with new 6.0 pH. About 1/2 gallon each. Just pouring out of there.

It seems to have stabilized them a bit and my tipped out water is now coming out at 5.8 and 5.9 for all the buckets after an hr or so of sitting. I'll keep checking on them tonight.

If they don't shape up by tomorrow and start showing improved uptake, then I'll try swapping the light kits again, just to see if I notice any difference in my runoff pH/TDS etc.


Thanks all for your suggestions, guys!
 
Are your tents in the same room/sitting on the same surface? Maybe root temps?
No, different rooms. My mom/veg tent is in the corner of the kitchen and sits on tile, on the ground floor, so it actually should have cooler roots. The 4x4 tent is on carpet upstairs.
But I also elevate the floor of the mom/veg tent. There's foam insulation on the tile floor, then a 2" air gap, and my pots sit on a thick layer of cardboard, well off the floor.

I will check that though. I have a thermometer on my TDS pen, I'll tip some out and see if there's a big difference.

I don't think there is a big difference, but I should check it.
 

Jewels

Tilts at Tables
I do have Holland Secret Micro "Hard Water" blend coming on order though as my starting ppms are ~200
In that case,,,
Just roll a doob, and put your feet up.

I use the 3 part religiously.
No other brands.
Also, Black, Gold, TonBud, Calnesium, and Citric Down.
I skip the VitB, Silca, and Flush.
Not an evangelist myself, but I love this shitt.
Free Shipping and their $4 facemasks are the BEST, at any price.

Thought I was done.
The Propagator is the best Baby food. 500ml will get about 100 plants to 4 weeks , as the only food source.
Yup $0.15 will grow you a flowerable plant.

These guys should be pay'n me. 😒
 

Jewels

Tilts at Tables
Now I feel like putting another coat of black paint on this shiny kettle.
I am the first to despise when people respond with retail solutions. As consumer confidence is hard to come by these days, I was merely supporting your buying decision.


I have used that line exclusively for 2 years. I am very happy with it.
 
In that case,,,
Just roll a doob, and put your feet up.

I use the 3 part religiously.
No other brands.
Also, Black, Gold, TonBud, Calnesium, and Citric Down.
I skip the VitB, Silca, and Flush.
Not an evangelist myself, but I love this shitt.
Free Shipping and their $4 facemasks are the BEST, at any price.

Thought I was done.
The Propagator is the best Baby food. 500ml will get about 100 plants to 4 weeks , as the only food source.
Yup $0.15 will grow you a flowerable plant.

These guys should be pay'n me. 😒

Now I feel like putting another coat of black paint on this shiny kettle.
I am the first to despise when people respond with retail solutions. As consumer confidence is hard to come by these days, I was merely supporting your buying decision.


I have used that line exclusively for 2 years. I am very happy with it.
Me as well, very happy with it.

Yeah my order with Future Harvest was for their B1 (1L mainly for the amino acids), CarboLoad powder (5kg) and the Hard Water Micro (2.5 gallon).
I do have Dutch Treat 0-10-10 I will use as my flower boost until it runs out, but it works good with the Holland Secret even being an organic blend.

Their Citric pH Down is on my list too, and their flower boosters, and some other additives, but I'll wait until I can place a large enough order for free shipping and maybe their free gifts too lol.

I skip flush products as well. I mean really, what's the point in a Hempy environment? So easy to wind it down, wash it out and fade the plants in perlite.


Yeah I'm totally happy with their stuff, and they aren't shy about associating themselves with the cannabis industry, so that's cool too. I think I may just stick exclusively with them unless it's something they don't provide.
 
To add.....they seem to be improving.

I don't know what caused it, and I don't know why this particular flush seems to have stabilized them, but I see an obvious improvement and perkiness. By tomorrow, I should see them little greening up just a little more hopefully.

The pH of the tipped out water is stable ranging from 5.8-6.0 across all the plants. I did notice however, that my tipped out water is really low in ppm's in comparison to the input water. They are sucking nutes up a fair bit faster than they are water. So I'm also going to step up the strength a bit to see if I can't stabilize TDS/EC a little as well.

Hopefully this is the last of it doing this.
 

Capt's Farm

CHOOSE YOUR TITLE
Your tents are acting different cause you have 9 plants in 1 and 12 in the other..
So the air is completely different in both tents...plants are not growing the same cause 9 plant get more co2 or oxygen then the 12 are...
You're in 2 different area's and now you have 2 different suppliers of different air going into each tent..
So there not the same....
Just keep that in mind....
 

Schwaggy P

🇦🇫🦨
Staff member
I am using HydroGuard in all the Hempy buckets
My first thought was what @Gweedo's Growroom offered as far as "anaerobic action" explaining this. I'll use this opportunity to continue the theme started by @Jewels concerning "retail solutions" and economizing nutrients etc.

I used Hydroguard in all my ebb/flow rez's with great success but found the price to be prohibitive. So I found an alternative that is much less expensive without sacrificing the results.

Let's see what is in Hydroguard:
hydrocontents.png
Bacillus Amyloliquefaciens 0.038%

So in looking for an alternative source for this bacillus bacteria, we find this:
Screen Shot 2021-03-05 at 5.53.43 AM.png
Bacillus Amyloliquefaciens 98.85%

I'll assume the Hydroguard is a gallon for purposes of calculating cost and volume for comparison. We can calculate how many gallons of 0.038% concentration stock solution we can make from the 98.85% Garden Friendly Fungicide alternative using the dilution formula:dilution.png

calc.png
So I can make about 326 gallons of Hydroguard from the concentrated Garden Friendly Fungicide(GFF) using the exact same bacillus bacteria. Let's see how the cost breaks down:

Screen Shot 2021-03-05 at 5.40.05 AM.pngScreen Shot 2021-03-05 at 5.39.33 AM.png
For the $27.92 cost of one 16oz bottle of GFF, I can make about 326 gallons of HG alternative.

If I were to buy 326 gallons of Hydroguard, it would cost (326gal x $57.73) $18,819.98

You may be able to get a better deal on the HG if you were to buy it by the drum, but realistically you would be purchasing it by the gallon as needed. The point still stands that you can make your own Hydroguard alternative for far less cost without sacrificing the results. I've been using the GFF for years and it works exactly the same as Hydroguard. I used to mix up a gallon of doubly concentrated HG alternative, but since the GFF is so much cheaper, I just add a few drops straight from the bottle into the rez once a week.
 

Capt's Farm

CHOOSE YOUR TITLE
Save a few bucks

Thanks for the info sir..I was just looking for something like this...was going to ask BH what he was using also.... he has some good stuff and links on this stuff...
Thanks again for all your efforts around here...👍
 
My first thought was what @Gweedo's Growroom offered as far as "anaerobic action" explaining this. I'll use this opportunity to continue the theme started by @Jewels concerning "retail solutions" and economizing nutrients etc.

I used Hydroguard in all my ebb/flow rez's with great success but found the price to be prohibitive. So I found an alternative that is much less expensive without sacrificing the results.

Let's see what is in Hydroguard:
View attachment 56301
Bacillus Amyloliquefaciens 0.038%

So in looking for an alternative source for this bacillus bacteria, we find this:
View attachment 56302
Bacillus Amyloliquefaciens 98.85%

I'll assume the Hydroguard is a gallon for purposes of calculating cost and volume for comparison. We can calculate how many gallons of 0.038% concentration stock solution we can make from the 98.85% Garden Friendly Fungicide alternative using the dilution formula:View attachment 56303

View attachment 56304
So I can make about 326 gallons of Hydroguard from the concentrated Garden Friendly Fungicide(GFF) using the exact same bacillus bacteria. Let's see how the cost breaks down:

View attachment 56305View attachment 56306
For the $27.92 cost of one 16oz bottle of GFF, I can make about 326 gallons of HG alternative.

If I were to buy 326 gallons of Hydroguard, it would cost (326gal x $57.73) $18,819.98

You may be able to get a better deal on the HG if you were to buy it by the drum, but realistically you would be purchasing it by the gallon as needed. The point still stands that you can make your own Hydroguard alternative for far less cost without sacrificing the results. I've been using the GFF for years and it works exactly the same as Hydroguard. I used to mix up a gallon of doubly concentrated HG alternative, but since the GFF is so much cheaper, I just add a few drops straight from the bottle into the rez once a week.
Luckily I got a smoking deal on my HydroGuard but I'll keep this in mind for when I run out, thanks!
 
Welcome10

That will often work as a coupon , at the checkout , for 10 % off.
Try welcome30, 25, 20, and welcome15 first.
Works ,,, sometimes.


Hurt my head when I thunk about it too hardly, although I believe the liquid bloom boosters are less expensive than dry.
Awesome thanks man. Where do you guys always find these discount codes lol. I never find them until after I've bought something lol
 
Your tents are acting different cause you have 9 plants in 1 and 12 in the other..
So the air is completely different in both tents...plants are not growing the same cause 9 plant get more co2 or oxygen then the 12 are...
You're in 2 different area's and now you have 2 different suppliers of different air going into each tent..
So there not the same....
Just keep that in mind....
I will keep this in mind. I wouldn't think it should be this because the tents are all over the house upstairs and down, all the tents get the same house air and they all cycle regularly and exchange air frequently and maintain temp/humidity ranges all about perfectly equally, within a degree or so, and a few humidity % points or so of eachother.

If this last flush doesn't have them straightened out, I'll have to try these possibilities out (lights and/or air somehow being the cause). Not sure how I'd solve it if it was air though.....lights would be just a simple swap.

Heading up there right now in fact to see how they're doing, lights came on not too long ago........
 

BH

Tha Dank Hoarder
Save a few bucks

Thanks for the info sir..I was just looking for something like this...was going to ask BH what he was using also.... he has some good stuff and links on this stuff...
Thanks again for all your efforts around here...
👍

Southern ag = 1ml per 10 gallons!

I was even suggested if it’s not hydro medium to use every 2 weeks, I apply every other Rez fill up . Apply from first need of water on clones/seedlings to end of bloom to prevent your biggest enemies and the most sensitive time for a plant. you can even spray it to prevent and battle budrot and pm, haven’t tried that yet but I’m gonnea email/call the company and ask em how that works and known compatibility (a example with regalia and my IPM and seagreen mixture )

its crazy how concentrated (southern ag fungi) it is , I’m impressed and wasn’t willing to buy hydroguard cause of cost, but southern ag is fosure.

If your doing enzymes ( why waste cash?) , pond zymes vs hydro store brands enzymes . A good compare on hydroguard vs SA fungi, you think big ag or commerical would pay hydro stores and survive ?
16,000 gallons for 20 bucks , it’s even has its own built in feeder for the enzymes aka barley

another tip is buy it from known wholesalers of things alive so you don’t get old stock or fakes. even on Amazon , I would look at the wholesalers rating and see if they have a good % of positive and what their reviews are based on such.

why buy something that is already dead or you could you spent same price and buy it from better wholesalers to guarantee the reliability of the product they are selling.

pond zymes : 1/2 teaspoon -1 tablespoon every 50 gallons ( Im feisty I go at 1 tablespoon )
Amazon product
southern ag garden friendly fungi: 1ml @ every 10 gallons for drenches (suggested every 2-3 weeks, I would do 2 weeks to guarantee ) apply from start of plants life to harvest

Amazon product
 
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