WCaP Water Soluble Calcium Phosphate

SSGrower

👨‍🔬
This is only as organic as the inputs. I use eggshells but you can also use vertebrate bones.

Step 1 Bake a cake.
Redless velvet cake

For above 7000ft elevation
Let ingredients get to room temp

1 lb flour (about ½ cake ½ all purpose)
4 rounded TBSP Cacao (not Cocoa)
1 rounded Tsp Baking Soda
1 rounded Tsp salt (grind fine)

Sift those together

1C butter (unsalted)
2C granulated sugar
Cream together slowly adding sugar (like a couple minutes on max blender speed)

Take a ¼ C measuring cup add 1 ⅛ tsp distilled white vinegar fill remainder with Canola oil add to butter and sugar, continue to cream.

Add 1 Tbsp or more Vanilla

5 eggs blend in (like 2 on mixer) yolks 1 at to butter/sugar reserve whites

Add in 2C buttermilk intermittently with flour mix (split in thirds) blend smooth between each addition.

Make a stiff mirangue with the egg whites, fold into batter.

Butter and flour pans fill only slightly more than ½ full. Bake 350-365 38min for a 13x9 (less for 8 or 9in rounds)

Frosting
16oz cream cheese
8oz butter (unsalted)
1 rounded tsp salt
4 rounded Tbsp Niddo (dehydrated whole milk)
Cream all that together
8oz melted white chocolate (use a double boiler)
Add that to butter cream cheese
2 Tbsp vanilla or more (reduce in double boiler to use less conf. sugar)
Thicken witb 4½-5C confectioner's sugar

5000-7000ft reduce bs and vinegar to 1 tsp
Below 4000 reduce to 4 eggs and reduce flout by ¼C
Have a beer
View attachment 3046
View attachment 3047
Stiff egg whites
View attachment 3045

Have one of these for dinner
View attachment 3048

Substitute budder for butter if you want, add about a tbsp niddo to replace milk solids.

Nice plant, cute pup.

Step 2 rinse the eggshells with hot water and let dry.

Step 3 crush and toast eggshells 400F 20-30 minutes. You may want to do this on the grill, it stinks.

Step 4 grind toasted eggshells and put in a mason jar.

Step 5 SLOWLY add 5x by volume vinegar.
20200312_161142.jpg

20200312_161206.jpg
I said SLOWLY damit!
20200312_161327.jpg

Step 6 stir daily until no more bubbles appear, about 14 days or so, the jar on the left above has finished product.

Step 7 Seperate liquid and store in sealed container. Dilute 5-20ml per gallon best to test because there is some variability but 20ml/gal usually gets me in the 2-300 ppm range.

Some recipes say to remove the membranes, other say to leave them. I have been leaving them lately. Also read somewhere the more toasted the more phosphate is favored, I dont have a lab to analyze this stuff. I toasted this batch almost 40 minutes as opposed to my normal 20. For foliar I'd stay on the lower end of concentration. I'm currently adding to megacrop.
 

SSGrower

👨‍🔬
That's pretty sweet man, I assume you're seeing some benefit supplemented with mc. My only question is, how did you quote yourself in the first post of this thread? lol
Quoted myself out of @Jewels thread using the multiquote button. That's the best write up and most complete dump out of my head that I have done for my red velvet cake without food coloring so redless velvet cake, its not racist @HydroRed .
 

SSGrower

👨‍🔬
That's pretty sweet man, I assume you're seeing some benefit supplemented with mc. My only question is, how did you quote yourself in the first post of this thread? lol
We'll see how this ends up panning out, I didn't use this with mc v1, skipped v2. Basically going to push N down in flower by using this and epsom. In my soil (quasi ROLS) I would give seperately in an attempt to mitigate the antagonistic relationship of Ca and Mg. Not sure how I will execute the plan in hydro but I might end up with 2 different resivoirs one with WCaP and one with epsom.
 

macsnax

Pollen Slinger
I
We'll see how this ends up panning out, I didn't use this with mc v1, skipped v2. Basically going to push N down in flower by using this and epsom. In my soil (quasi ROLS) I would give seperately in an attempt to mitigate the antagonistic relationship of Ca and Mg. Not sure how I will execute the plan in hydro but I might end up with 2 different resivoirs one with WCaP and one with epsom.
I honestly think that will give better looking flower plants and probably tastier buds too. 👊
 

HydroRed

3Thirteen Seeds
Staff member
We'll see how this ends up panning out, I didn't use this with mc v1, skipped v2. Basically going to push N down in flower by using this and epsom. In my soil (quasi ROLS) I would give seperately in an attempt to mitigate the antagonistic relationship of Ca and Mg. Not sure how I will execute the plan in hydro but I might end up with 2 different resivoirs one with WCaP and one with epsom.
Even if its never introduced into a hydro res, it still sounds like a good foliar.
 

Jewels

Tilts at Tables
Thanks for the invite!
I have a phosphate Checker from my aquarium days.

There is more ads than info, at the other end of this link ,however, glean the vocabulary for future study.

I would like to try your recipe with snail hulls.
You mentioned vertebrate bone, is that a "bone meal" constituent requirement ?

I am also wondering about freshwater clam shell ?
On the farm, Ma' supplemented cuttlebone with her (egg) layers.
True story : one time the chickens got into the supply, and the following egg shells were so hard ,you could drop them off the counter and they would (near) bounce on the floor.
The cuttlebone would be a saltwater animal, whereas the clams are freshwater beast. I know humalite from fresh water deposits are superior salt water deposit.
I guess I could produce all three recipes, and run the phosphate test.

One more thing,,,. The baking.
Would this be a chelating process ?
is there a physical and or chemical change ?

so many questions,,,
Thanks for the write-up, scientist dude. :geek::geek:
 

SSGrower

👨‍🔬
Even if its never introduced into a hydro res, it still sounds like a good foliar.
Until now I havent had a well controlled environment to the point I felt comfortable doing anything foliar, but it is suppose to help with budset (fruit trees and peppers as well as ornamentals). Lots of stuff from KNF (Korean Natural Farming) are meant as foliars. I got into it a little with bokashi and fermented green manures (elk poo). I did an ok writeup on riu in my first party cup, will have to see if I can find it.

Alot of it is so simple it dosent warrant their own thread, like SST
Step 1 sprout a few tablespoons to a cup or so of seeds in a cup of water.
Step 2 blend sprouted seeds
Step 3 strain and dilute with water.

On a side note @HydroRed do you use anything in your res to prevent slime?
 

SSGrower

👨‍🔬
Thanks for the invite!
I have a phosphate Checker from my aquarium days.

There is more ads than info, at the other end of this link ,however, glean the vocabulary for future study.

I would like to try your recipe with snail hulls.
You mentioned vertebrate bone, is that a "bone meal" constituent requirement ?

I am also wondering about freshwater clam shell ?
On the farm, Ma' supplemented cuttlebone with her (egg) layers.
True story : one time the chickens got into the supply, and the following egg shells were so hard ,you could drop them off the counter and they would (near) bounce on the floor.
The cuttlebone would be a saltwater animal, whereas the clams are freshwater beast. I know humalite from fresh water deposits are superior salt water deposit.
I guess I could produce all three recipes, and run the phosphate test.

One more thing,,,. The baking.
Would this be a chelating process ?
is there a physical and or chemical change ?

so many questions,,,
Thanks for the write-up, scientist dude. :geek::geek:
I dont think its chelating I think its oxidation.

Yes on clamshells here's a link to some info

Harder the egg the better IMO I got some egga from a beyond organic ranch up in @macsnax s region of the state and if nothing else fewer eggs made the same amount of powder. I think the grinding speeds the process and may help with digest/use/react all of the raw material but not be completely necessary.

Thanks for the heads up on the phsphate tester, I stole my arduino light controller from a reef head. LOL.

Think that hit them all
 
Last edited:

HydroRed

3Thirteen Seeds
Staff member
Until now I havent had a well controlled environment to the point I felt comfortable doing anything foliar, but it is suppose to help with budset (fruit trees and peppers as well as ornamentals). Lots of stuff from KNF (Korean Natural Farming) are meant as foliars. I got into it a little with bokashi and fermented green manures (elk poo). I did an ok writeup on riu in my first party cup, will have to see if I can find it.

Alot of it is so simple it dosent warrant their own thread, like SST
Step 1 sprout a few tablespoons to a cup or so of seeds in a cup of water.
Step 2 blend sprouted seeds
Step 3 strain and dilute with water.

On a side note @HydroRed do you use anything in your res to prevent slime?
I run a sterile res with the addition of H2o2 (drugstore 3%) every 3 days. I dont measure anymore, but I'd guess about 15-20 ml per gallon.
 

macsnax

Pollen Slinger
I dont think its chelating I think its oxidation.

Yes on clamshells here's a link to some info

Harder the egg the better IMO I got some egga from a beyond organic ranch up in @macsnax s region of the state and if nothing else fewer eggs made the same amount of powder. I think the grinding speeds the process and may help with digest/use/react all of the raw material but not be completely necessary.

Thanks for the heads up on the phsphate tester, I stole my arduino light controller from a reef head. LOL.

Think that hit them all
Don't know the place but there's no shortage of farm fresh eggs up here. Soooo much better tasting.
 

SSGrower

👨‍🔬
Don't know the place but there's no shortage of farm fresh eggs up here. Soooo much better tasting.
It might still be a couple hours drive and they are pricey but I got the eggs some steaks, buttter, milk all delicious. They also had compost teas and a few other things worth it for that but if you are interisted in biodynamic farming they are definitely worth checking out. Working Ranch: Buy Products | Sustainable Settings
 

macsnax

Pollen Slinger
It might still be a couple hours drive and they are pricey but I got the eggs some steaks, buttter, milk all delicious. They also had compost teas and a few other things worth it for that but if you are interisted in biodynamic farming they are definitely worth checking out. Working Ranch: Buy Products | Sustainable Settings
Lol ya my cousin gets milk and eggs over there. I've never been personally but sampled her milk and it was pretty good. Might have to go see for myself, maybe after covid is gone lol.
 

SSGrower

👨‍🔬
@macsnax I have had some trouble with storage. I think one of 2 things is happening or possibly both. The soluble components may be preciptating out and there may be unwanted bacterial growth. The solution has goten cloudy and a film has developed on the top, there is some settling of material on the bottom and there is less yellow color (though this may just be the result of me adding peroxide).

Today I ran the material through a coffee filter into a jar that I had rinsed with peroxide and gave it a shot of peroxide. Any tips on how to better clean up this suspected contaminant would be appreciated. This didn't seem to happen when I was removing the lining from the eggs so that might be a factor.

I think the material may also be super saturated 5ml took 1/2 gal of 0ppm ro water was putting me over 300ppm. Will see if I can get more accurate and consistently take measurements on futre batches.

Second batch has pretty much stopped bubbling. BTW the bubbles are co2, forgot to mention that benifit. I just stirred it before the pic but the cloudy stuff ends up setteling out leaving it a clear whiskey color.
20200324_085736.jpg
 

SSGrower

👨‍🔬
MC can be funny when stored in a solution form. I really dig what you're up to, keep the updates coming bud
Ca deficiency emerging on one of my soil plants I first noticed it a week ago, was just gonna trim a few fans but ended up chopping off most of the affected leaves to see if the Ca def was progressing or what. The plant had a rough beginning and I probably should have just pruned a couple shoots instead if doing the defol.
Eight days ago-
Pre trim
20200321_085354.jpg
Post trim
20200321_090904.jpg
Today
20200329_090925.jpg
It was getting 700ppm total 500 MC and 200 WCaP. Today I changed that to 400 and 300ppm respectively, we'll see what that does.
 

macsnax

Pollen Slinger
Ca deficiency emerging on one of my soil plants I first noticed it a week ago, was just gonna trim a few fans but ended up chopping off most of the affected leaves to see if the Ca def was progressing or what. The plant had a rough beginning and I probably should have just pruned a couple shoots instead if doing the defol.
Eight days ago-
Pre trim
View attachment 5805
Post trim
View attachment 5804
Today
View attachment 5806
It was getting 700ppm total 500 MC and 200 WCaP. Today I changed that to 400 and 300ppm respectively, we'll see what that does.
Lol can't go prune when you're watching. Sometimes you have to let those leaves look ugly, and then you start seeing it. You know your plants buddy, they will show you the way.
 

SSGrower

👨‍🔬
Lol can't go prune when you're watching. Sometimes you have to let those leaves look ugly, and then you start seeing it. You know your plants buddy, they will show you the way.
Yes, no, maybe so.
Pruning off damaged leaves for mobile nutrient def will show more quickly if changes made were effective. I pruned for light at the same time so I cut off all the reserves. Thing is there is/was plenty of Ca in the feed and its the pH thats causing issues. So the pruning has actually led me to the root cause.
If I were going to let it ride and make no changes I wouldn't have pruned, the reserves would still be there and the plant still would not be uptaking the amount of Ca needed. It would look better though.
 
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