What's going on with this leaf?

[UrbanHillbilly]

I have a a couple of plants on day 37 that's seem stubbornly short and one of them has some stuff going on with a couple leaves that I'm worried about. Quite honestly, I saw this before when I attempted to make clones from my first grow and it didn't turn out well. That was nearly a year ago. the tents sat since then, but I did spray down the tents with a light bleach solution.

What am I looking at here?




Any advice?

 

[DopeDaniel]

Does that board have uv?
Maybe a bit close or too intense light for the environment. Looks like plant isn't getting enough magnesium and if the light is too intense or vpd is off that will only complicate the situation.

Raise and/or dim the light and give an epsom foliar 1t/quart. Turn off any uv for now if you can. Many nutrient issues can be managed just by backing off the gas a bit.

 

[UrbanHillbilly]

Does that board have uv?
Maybe a bit close or too intense light for the environment. Looks like plant isn't getting enough magnesium and if the light is too intense or vpd is off that will only complicate the situation.

Raise and/or dim the light and give an epsom foliar 1t/quart. Turn off any uv for now if you can. Many nutrient issues can be managed just by backing off the gas a bit.

The light is an LED board I picked up last year. I don't believe it has any UV. It might be too intense, so I can raise it and turn down the brightness some.

Amazon product

I'm using the Botanicare nutes; PBP, Hydroguard, and Cal-Mag. I'll pick up some epson salt tomorrow. I'll also get rid of the leaf or two that have that problem showing.

Don't these plants seem stunted with their height at this stage? Or am I comparing them too much to the fast-grow auto? Like I said, this is only my second grow.

 

[Jewels]

I saw the photos in your journal, but did not have a chance to reply.

I see superficial damage to the epidermis, of the top-most leaves. I see a bit of leaf taco. You mention the plants are not stretching upward.
All of this COULD say excessive light intensity.
Some of this COULD say temperature.


Say the opposite were true. What would happen if these plants were NOT getting enough light ? They would be super tall and stretchy. They would be pale in colour with small leaves.

A leaf will taco like that in response to to swings in temp., or extreme temperature, in itself. Whether it be too cold at night, or too hot during the day

The leaves that are showing damage are horizontal.
Are the leaves in the lower canopy showing the discoloration? Or just the ones closest to the light?
The growing tip is somewhat more immune to light burn, as it is vertical.


** I see @DopeDaniel , as replied while I was composing.**

Looks like the two of us may be thinking along the same lines. And the advice I was about to give would be the same.

Raising the light up I bet would stretch them up, if nothing else.

Topping, if you haven't already, would encourage the lower branches to make their way up to the canopy crown

 

[Jewels]

Don't these plants seem stunted with their height at this stage?

I can speak to this.
I intentionally blast my veg with copious amounts of 24/7 light in order to keep them low. You would have to remind me how old your plants are, but I can keep a plant under 12 inch for more than 6 weeks of veg
I am harvesting indica right now that are less than 18 in tall.

The products you are listing are designed to provide complete nutrition. I would venture to say that you are giving them everything they need, and I would also be so bold as well to say that most manufacturers dosing regimens can be quite successful at 50% strength.

 

[UrbanHillbilly]

I saw the photos in your journal, but did not have a chance to reply.

I see superficial damage to the epidermis, of the top-most leaves. I see a bit of leaf taco. You mention the plants are not stretching upward.
All of this COULD say excessive light intensity.
Some of this COULD say temperature.


Say the opposite were true. What would happen if these plants were NOT getting enough light ? They would be super tall and stretchy. They would be pale in colour with small leaves.

A leaf will taco like that in response to to swings in temp., or extreme temperature, in itself. Whether it be too cold at night, or too hot during the day

The leaves that are showing damage are horizontal.
Are the leaves in the lower canopy showing the discoloration? Or just the ones closest to the light?
The growing tip is somewhat more immune to light burn, as it is vertical.


** I see @DopeDaniel , as replied while I was composing.**

Looks like the two of us may be thinking along the same lines. And the advice I was about to give would be the same.

Raising the light up I bet would stretch them up, if nothing else.

Topping, if you haven't already, would encourage the lower branches to make their way up to the canopy crown

OK, I raised the light to about 2' above the plants and turned down the brightness some. As for temps, I have a thermometer sensor in the tent and it's in the mid to low 70s at night when the light's off, and 80-82 during the day. I doubt that's enough swing to cause any problems. I'm running 18/6 on both tents for now.

 

[Jewels]

I really like @Photon Pharms take on caring for juveniles.
I'm not certain you will find it all spelled out in one post, although if you have the chance to read a bit of his stuff you may find some stuff to fill your pockets.

 

[UrbanHillbilly]

I can speak to this.
I intentionally blast my veg with copious amounts of 24/7 light in order to keep them low. You would have to remind me how old your plants are, but I can keep a plant under 12 inch for more than 6 weeks of veg
I am harvesting indica right now that are less than 18 in tall.

The products you are listing are designed to provide complete nutrition. I would venture to say that you are giving them everything they need, and I would also be so bold as well to say that most manufacturers dosing regimens can be quite successful at 50% strength.

I believe that's the first time I've heard someone mention anything about cutting back on the nute dosage/gal. I'll give that a shot over the next week or so and re-assess.
Just curious, what strain have you kept that short?

 

[Jewels]

mid to low 70s at night when the light's off, and 80-82 during the day.

Sounds just fine to me.

Leaf temp and ambient air temps can differ ; it's possible certain leaves are getting cooked.

first time I've heard someone mention anything about cutting back on the nute dosage/gal

Cause I am not trying to sell you nutes !

The manufacturers are striving to make a complete product so people will have success.
And that is good for you.
The more of it you buy, the better it is for them.

Sure, if you are just pouring nutrients through coco pulling a pound per plant, they're going to need a bit of food.

There are many labels out there that will dose you up over a thousand ppm. Most of us casual Growers would do just fine between 4 and 500. It's pretty serious business when a crop needs over 700 ppm.

curious, what strain have you kept that short?

Not so much the strain, rather more the style of grow.
I am harvesting these right now, 16 to 24 inches tall.
12·12 from seed, small pots until they show sex, planted a fist width apart.


Affie × DankSinatra
LA Dog x DankSinatra
Mk Ultra x DankSinatra

I pulled that MK seed off of this plant, last winter.




That one vegged at 300pmm and flowered at 800pmm during week 5,6,7.

 

[Photon Pharms]

I have a a couple of plants on day 37 that's seem stubbornly short and one of them has some stuff going on with a couple leaves that I'm worried about. Quite honestly, I saw this before when I attempted to make clones from my first grow and it didn't turn out well. That was nearly a year ago. the tents sat since then, but I did spray down the tents with a light bleach solution.

What am I looking at here?

View attachment 189975
View attachment 189976

Any advice?

What you need to do is called a soil slurry test. Though in such a small pot I have a couple of ways this can basically be done. That will always tell you exactly what is wrong and why. I'd be absolutely more than happy to help you out. But, I can tell you by looking at it that you have high pH and have locked out nutrients. This is the first step to a cal mag race n chase. Haha. You may have already been told to add cal mag, and in fact it will probably, kind of, work. Because for the brief moment it's available to the plant, when you first add it, it will help. But it's like giving an alcoholic a beer because they don't feel well. Sure it'll make him feel better for a sec, but the underlying issue is still there. IE - race n chase. Hit me up today if you're still messing with this issue and I can help you with identifying and correcting this and many other issues my friend. But again, it appears as either a high ph(typically lower pH allows Nitrogen to become more available thus darker leaves) or she's starving directly due to lack of nutrition. But one of those is my guess. But why guess when you can easily and consistently always know?! Haha. Have a great day my friend, let me know if I can help.

 

[DopeDaniel]

You're getting advise, try not to follow all of it at once.

I'll pick up some epson salt tomorrow.

Laxative grade usp. The urge to act can be difficult to overcome, imo you can wait a couple days while sorting the other things.

Don't see an rh? if you're less than 50 might be worth addressing but I look to match stuff so I'm not fighting a loosing battle. Dimming the light will probably lower the temps, maybe rh will rise. Make a play off each move to your advantage.

I'll also get rid of the leaf or two that have that problem showing.

Might not do that myself. A mobile nutrient issue will continue to pull the nute as long as it is needed at the growth node, removing the leaf is removing your indicator. A fresh leaf won't show damage immediately where the damage will stop progressing on the already damaged leaf.

 

[RookieBuds]

Two things that'll really help you dial in your lights

Use a free phone app to measure PPFD, sure it won't be Apogee-accurate, but better than eyeballing it. Also, a surface temp gun, to read the leaf surface temp at the top of your canopy.

One of these tools is free, the surface temp gun is like $10 on eEmazonbay.

 

[UrbanHillbilly]

What you need to do is called a soil slurry test. Though in such a small pot I have a couple of ways this can basically be done. That will always tell you exactly what is wrong and why. I'd be absolutely more than happy to help you out. But, I can tell you by looking at it that you have high pH and have locked out nutrients. This is the first step to a cal mag race n chase. Haha. You may have already been told to add cal mag, and in fact it will probably, kind of, work. Because for the brief moment it's available to the plant, when you first add it, it will help. But it's like giving an alcoholic a beer because they don't feel well. Sure it'll make him feel better for a sec, but the underlying issue is still there. IE - race n chase. Hit me up today if you're still messing with this issue and I can help you with identifying and correcting this and many other issues my friend. But again, it appears as either a high ph(typically lower pH allows Nitrogen to become more available thus darker leaves) or she's starving directly due to lack of nutrition. But one of those is my guess. But why guess when you can easily and consistently always know?! Haha. Have a great day my friend, let me know if I can help.

I recently picked up one of those cheapo ChiCom pH meters off Amazon (Vivosun brand, but they all look the same) and it doesn't seem worth much, but it measured my nute water at 6.8 ph. I wouldn't be surprised if that's a .1 or two off. The only soil ph probe I have is an oldie (I think it was left over when my dad passed away in '12) and it doesn't seem to register at all, so time for a new one. What's my best path from here? In case it isn't obvious from my low-end gear, I'm operating on a tight budget. Gotta love life on SSDI.

 

[Photon Pharms]

I recently picked up one of those cheapo ChiCom pH meters off Amazon (Vivosun brand, but they all look the same) and it doesn't seem worth much, but it measured my nute water at 6.8 ph. I wouldn't be surprised if that's a .1 or two off. The only soil ph probe I have is an oldie (I think it was left over when my dad passed away in '12) and it doesn't seem to register at all, so time for a new one. What's my best path from here? In case it isn't obvious from my low-end gear, I'm operating on a tight budget. Gotta love life on SSDI.

Hey man, there nothing wrong with what you got, not at all!! Don't always need the top of the line, and a lot of times it's overkill for most. Plus, you can use this as your "slurry pen" and it's fine. Soil slurries are super easy. I personally recommend using distilled or RO water if available, but if you at least know the readings of the water used, were fine. I use one of the kitchen tablespoons, and go down the side of the pot a good two inches when possible. You dig through a couple of roots, but I promise it's not a problem. Obviously don't honey badger your scoops out, but normal scoop here and there never hurt anything. Anyway, I usually need two or three scoops to get enough media to test, I recommend taking from opposite sides to spread the love a bit and get a more "average soil/blend reading" if you follow me. Now, I like to use solo cups, they typically have lines in their molds and you can use those "lines" to have even amounts in two separate cups. One solo cup you will be adding your soil to, about an inch or so is plenty. So one of the lower lines of the cup. The other cup has your water in it, the amount of water in that cup is or will be the same amount as you have of soil in the other cup. So one inch of soil in cup A, then you'll want one inch of water in cup B. This is where it gets extremely complicated, really separate the men from the boys here so follow closely......... Add the water to soil cup and stir......... I know I know. It sounds insane at this point, but trust me, I've only heard of one one guy blowing up his house and I'm not entirely sure this was the reason. Haha. Seriously though, it's that simple. Stir those, wait about a minute or two, stir again and stick your pen in the "slurry" and get a reading. That's your actual real time soil readings. Now it does help to have a ppm meter, but not entirely necessary. Through a little thought, you can usually determine the issue without one. If your pH is off in your slurry, then obviously there's your problem. Nutrients are only available for the plant to uptake (eat) at certain pH ranges. There's other factors, but for ease we'll just stay there. As the ph changes, different nutrients are made more and less available, even at consistent input rates, due to the pH and as such can and do affect other nutrients, also called locking out. Hence why you here Call Mag being recommended for everything but the common cold haha. Most times calcium isn't being made available enough due to the pH of people's soils/coco blends. The problem with adding just cal mag and not actually fixing the real issue is that you only get a very temporary fix. And as such are constantly adding cal mag. Most if not all bag soils and blends have more than enough mag in them for cannabis, as long as the pH is kept correct. Now let's say you get a good pH reading and since you don't have a ppm meter, Im guessing here sorry and no big deal, the question then becomes are you feeding regularly and at recommended dosages? If the answer is yes then back off the nutes as you have created another situation that induces nutrients locking out, and that is high ppms in your soil. Think about air pollution and smog makes it hard to breathe, we'll nutrient uptake is somewhat, kind of similar in that, too much nutrients cause certain nutes to not be taken in as efficiently as others and some are taken in very easy. Hence the dark leaves you see most times before a nutes burn. Nitrogen is very easy adsorbed into the roots. But anyway. If the answer to the feeding question is "not really feeding heavy at all" the educated guess is then most likely, lack of nutrients present ie she hungry brother! Haha. That would/could be verified with a ppm pen, but you can see how it's not entirely necessary. I hope this isn't too confusing, please ask me any questions you may have. I pretty much flew though that. So I'm sure it only made so much sense hahaha. Here to help brother, never a bother

 

[UrbanHillbilly]

Hey man, there nothing wrong with what you got, not at all!! Don't always need the top of the line, and a lot of times it's overkill for most. Plus, you can use this as your "slurry pen" and it's fine. Soil slurries are super easy. I personally recommend using distilled or RO water if available, but if you at least know the readings of the water used, were fine. I use one of the kitchen tablespoons, and go down the side of the pot a good two inches when possible. You dig through a couple of roots, but I promise it's not a problem. Obviously don't honey badger your scoops out, but normal scoop here and there never hurt anything. Anyway, I usually need two or three scoops to get enough media to test, I recommend taking from opposite sides to spread the love a bit and get a more "average soil/blend reading" if you follow me. Now, I like to use solo cups, they typically have lines in their molds and you can use those "lines" to have even amounts in two separate cups. One solo cup you will be adding your soil to, about an inch or so is plenty. So one of the lower lines of the cup. The other cup has your water in it, the amount of water in that cup is or will be the same amount as you have of soil in the other cup. So one inch of soil in cup A, then you'll want one inch of water in cup B. This is where it gets extremely complicated, really separate the men from the boys here so follow closely......... Add the water to soil cup and stir......... I know I know. It sounds insane at this point, but trust me, I've only heard of one one guy blowing up his house and I'm not entirely sure this was the reason. Haha. Seriously though, it's that simple. Stir those, wait about a minute or two, stir again and stick your pen in the "slurry" and get a reading. That's your actual real time soil readings. Now it does help to have a ppm meter, but not entirely necessary. Through a little thought, you can usually determine the issue without one. If your pH is off in your slurry, then obviously there's your problem. Nutrients are only available for the plant to uptake (eat) at certain pH ranges. There's other factors, but for ease we'll just stay there. As the ph changes, different nutrients are made more and less available, even at consistent input rates, due to the pH and as such can and do affect other nutrients, also called locking out. Hence why you here Call Mag being recommended for everything but the common cold haha. Most times calcium isn't being made available enough due to the pH of people's soils/coco blends. The problem with adding just cal mag and not actually fixing the real issue is that you only get a very temporary fix. And as such are constantly adding cal mag. Most if not all bag soils and blends have more than enough mag in them for cannabis, as long as the pH is kept correct. Now let's say you get a good pH reading and since you don't have a ppm meter, Im guessing here sorry and no big deal, the question then becomes are you feeding regularly and at recommended dosages? If the answer is yes then back off the nutes as you have created another situation that induces nutrients locking out, and that is high ppms in your soil. Think about air pollution and smog makes it hard to breathe, we'll nutrient uptake is somewhat, kind of similar in that, too much nutrients cause certain nutes to not be taken in as efficiently as others and some are taken in very easy. Hence the dark leaves you see most times before a nutes burn. Nitrogen is very easy adsorbed into the roots. But anyway. If the answer to the feeding question is "not really feeding heavy at all" the educated guess is then most likely, lack of nutrients present ie she hungry brother! Haha. That would/could be verified with a ppm pen, but you can see how it's not entirely necessary. I hope this isn't too confusing, please ask me any questions you may have. I pretty much flew though that. So I'm sure it only made so much sense hahaha. Here to help brother, never a bother

Actually I do have a TDS (ppm) pen, the Vivosun ph meter came as a two-fer. I'll probably do the slurry test tomorrow. But presuming my ph is too high, which I do believe is the case, I'm enough of a newb that I'm not sure the best way to lower it.

BTW, shouldn't I be thinning a few of those leaves, especially the lower ones?

Here's pics from today.




And my enthusiastic girl, the Candyfloss. I did some gentle bending last night and expect I'll do more. You can probably see it's tied off on the left. This girl is looking a little droopy tonight.

 

[UrbanHillbilly]

Two things that'll really help you dial in your lights

Use a free phone app to measure PPFD, sure it won't be Apogee-accurate, but better than eyeballing it. Also, a surface temp gun, to read the leaf surface temp at the top of your canopy.

One of these tools is free, the surface temp gun is like $10 on eEmazonbay.

I had forgotten about the PPFD app on my phone, I've had it there since last year. Tonight I dialed in the lights a bit. IIRC I should be aiming for no more than 1000 at the top of the plant. On the two photo plants I have the light about 2' up and it's currently reading ~830. On the Candyfloss auto it's about 970. I really need to move that fan outside the tent for the extra headspace and to do some more bending.

 

[UrbanHillbilly]

Two things that'll really help you dial in your lights

Use a free phone app to measure PPFD, sure it won't be Apogee-accurate, but better than eyeballing it. Also, a surface temp gun, to read the leaf surface temp at the top of your canopy.

One of these tools is free, the surface temp gun is like $10 on eEmazonbay.

I forgot to mention, I also picked up an infrared thermo tonight on clearance at Harbor Freight. Not sure exactly what I'm looking for, but the top leaves on the 2 photo plants were about 74F.

 

[JL2G]

What you need to do is called a soil slurry test.

Good advice there.

You're getting advise, try not to follow all of it at once.

Good advice there too.

Laxative grade usp. The urge to act can be difficult to overcome, imo you can wait a couple days while sorting the other things.

Don't see an rh? if you're less than 50 might be worth addressing but I look to match stuff so I'm not fighting a loosing battle. Dimming the light will probably lower the temps, maybe rh will rise. Make a play off each move to your advantage.


Might not do that myself. A mobile nutrient issue will continue to pull the nute as long as it is needed at the growth node, removing the leaf is removing your indicator. A fresh leaf won't show damage immediately where the damage will stop progressing on the already damaged leaf.

I don't pull em if there's still green to be eaten and or further monitored. Like did it stop getting worse, or eat up further etc.

I recently picked up one of those cheapo ChiCom pH meters off Amazon (Vivosun brand, but they all look the same) and it doesn't seem worth much, but it measured my nute water at 6.8 ph. I wouldn't be surprised if that's a .1 or two off. The only soil ph probe I have is an oldie (I think it was left over when my dad passed away in '12) and it doesn't seem to register at all, so time for a new one. What's my best path from here? In case it isn't obvious from my low-end gear, I'm operating on a tight budget. Gotta love life on SSDI.

Those probe soil meters lie alot. Lol. Slurry test as mentioned above, and described below.

Hey man, there nothing wrong with what you got, not at all!! Don't always need the top of the line, and a lot of times it's overkill for most. Plus, you can use this as your "slurry pen" and it's fine. Soil slurries are super easy. I personally recommend using distilled or RO water if available, but if you at least know the readings of the water used, were fine. I use one of the kitchen tablespoons, and go down the side of the pot a good two inches when possible. You dig through a couple of roots, but I promise it's not a problem. Obviously don't honey badger your scoops out, but normal scoop here and there never hurt anything. Anyway, I usually need two or three scoops to get enough media to test, I recommend taking from opposite sides to spread the love a bit and get a more "average soil/blend reading" if you follow me. Now, I like to use solo cups, they typically have lines in their molds and you can use those "lines" to have even amounts in two separate cups. One solo cup you will be adding your soil to, about an inch or so is plenty. So one of the lower lines of the cup. The other cup has your water in it, the amount of water in that cup is or will be the same amount as you have of soil in the other cup. So one inch of soil in cup A, then you'll want one inch of water in cup B. This is where it gets extremely complicated, really separate the men from the boys here so follow closely......... Add the water to soil cup and stir......... I know I know. It sounds insane at this point, but trust me, I've only heard of one one guy blowing up his house and I'm not entirely sure this was the reason. Haha. Seriously though, it's that simple. Stir those, wait about a minute or two, stir again and stick your pen in the "slurry" and get a reading. That's your actual real time soil readings. Now it does help to have a ppm meter, but not entirely necessary. Through a little thought, you can usually determine the issue without one. If your pH is off in your slurry, then obviously there's your problem. Nutrients are only available for the plant to uptake (eat) at certain pH ranges. There's other factors, but for ease we'll just stay there. As the ph changes, different nutrients are made more and less available, even at consistent input rates, due to the pH and as such can and do affect other nutrients, also called locking out. Hence why you here Call Mag being recommended for everything but the common cold haha. Most times calcium isn't being made available enough due to the pH of people's soils/coco blends. The problem with adding just cal mag and not actually fixing the real issue is that you only get a very temporary fix. And as such are constantly adding cal mag.

Solid advice.

Most if not all bag soils and blends have more than enough mag in them for cannabis, as long as the pH is kept correct. Now let's say you get a good pH reading and since you don't have a ppm meter, Im guessing here sorry and no big deal, the question then becomes are you feeding regularly and at recommended dosages? If the answer is yes then back off the nutes as you have created another situation that induces nutrients locking out, and that is high ppms in your soil.

👍

Think about air pollution and smog makes it hard to breathe, we'll nutrient uptake is somewhat, kind of similar in that, too much nutrients cause certain nutes to not be taken in as efficiently as others and some are taken in very easy. Hence the dark leaves you see most times before a nutes burn. Nitrogen is very easy adsorbed into the roots. But anyway. If the answer to the feeding question is "not really feeding heavy at all" the educated guess is then most likely, lack of nutrients present ie she hungry brother! Haha. That would/could be verified with a ppm pen, but you can see how it's not entirely necessary. I hope this isn't too confusing, please ask me any questions you may have. I pretty much flew though that. So I'm sure it only made so much sense hahaha. Here to help brother, never a bother

Nice write up mang. 👊👊👊
I've found in my own experiments for my super soil it doesn't care whether I use distilled or tap for the slurry test.
The soil equalizes it all for my soil at least. Distilled 7 ish pH vs low 9's tap would come to the same slurry test results using the blue labs meter.
Though over multiple yrs time my soils pH does creep up some from the carbonate build up. (It all gets recycled)
Usually add in a good bit of sulfur to combat it and or drop it over time.

 

[JL2G]

I forgot to mention, I also picked up an infrared thermo tonight on clearance at Harbor Freight. Not sure exactly what I'm looking for, but the top leaves on the 2 photo plants were about 74F.

When I first got my thermo gun I was checking everything. Lol. Even the dog.
Works great to check kids n adults temps too. 😆 🤣
I was surprised the leaves were a few degrees higher than ambient temps. In my case that's good.

 

[JL2G]

Actually I do have a TDS (ppm) pen, the Vivosun ph meter came as a two-fer. I'll probably do the slurry test tomorrow. But presuming my ph is too high,

mine were looking like that when my pH was creeping up in the 7.2 .3 range.
It's not immediate but taking garden sulfur, grind it up powder like. Then mixing one cup per gallon in sink tap hot water in a jug really well. Let it cool a bit, reshake and water it in. Some immediate help, but more a long term fix over a number of months it'll creep down. Premix in soil before/after use and let it cook in like fertilizer.

which I do believe is the case, I'm enough of a newb that I'm not sure the best way to lower it.

Above worked for me, but I'm all organic living soil.

BTW, shouldn't I be thinning a few of those leaves, especially the lower ones?

Those are the food producers. Imho don't take em unless they're completely dead, or it is a benefit to the plant or you to take em. Leave as many leaves as you can for a healthy plant imho.

Here's pics from today.
View attachment 190170

View attachment 190171

And my enthusiastic girl, the Candyfloss. I did some gentle bending last night and expect I'll do more. You can probably see it's tied off on the left.

This girl is looking a little droopy tonight.

How heavy is that pot? Is she just dry? Or she heavy like full of water?

View attachment 190172

Imho I don't really think they look bad at all. Get em dialed in and yer doing good mang. They may even grow out of that crying around. Lol