Feminized breeding question

SophisticatedBozo · Oct 4, 2022

I noticed that there doesn’t seem to be a lot of breeders that do feminized work making F2’s, F3’s and so on. Curious to know if others have noticed this or if I just don’t know enough breeders? Would like to hear everyone else’s thoughts on the topic, or know any breeders who are doing it. Has anyone here done this or plan to do it?

Seems like it could be very useful for reaching specific goals faster not having to use males. Which is why I found it odd you don’t see it more often.

notdezmond · Oct 4, 2022

I know Humboldt seed co has a bunch of feminized IBL

SophisticatedBozo · Oct 4, 2022

Dezzy88 said:
I know Humboldt seed co has a bunch of feminized IBL

So does he just release them without the F2 etc after the name or cross? I thought maybe that’s why you don’t see it just because people don’t label it as that.

Frosty78 · Oct 4, 2022

I

SophisticatedBozo said:
So does he just release them without the F2 etc after the name or cross? I thought maybe that’s why you don’t see it just because people don’t label it as that.

Ibl is f5 onwards.

Hitch · Oct 5, 2022

Hmmm. Trying to wrap my head around this concept. So if you self a plant, you end up with s1 feminized seeds, right? Then if you grow those out, reverse one and pollinate another s1 plant from seed what would you have? s2’s? More s1’s? Certainly if you used that pollen on the original plant it would be some kind of feminized bx, right? How would you work a feminized line really? These concepts blow my mind lol.

Frosty78 · Oct 5, 2022

Hitch said:
Hmmm. Trying to wrap my head around this concept. So if you self a plant, you end up with s1 feminized seeds, right? Then if you grow those out, reverse one and pollinate another s1 plant from seed what would you have? s2’s? More s1’s? Certainly if you used that pollen on the original plant it would be some kind of feminized bx, right? How would you work a feminized line really? These concepts blow my mind lol.

I could be wrong hitch but if you self it i think you have locked that phenotype if you use the feminised pollen on another female not related you have opened them up? That's how I read it, maybe schwaggy or someone else more learned can lead us to the answer. I have read offspring of feminised offspring are known as r1 r2 etc not filial f1. S1 is for self. Anyone else got the mail for hitch and myself?

SophisticatedBozo · Oct 5, 2022

Hitch said:
Hmmm. Trying to wrap my head around this concept. So if you self a plant, you end up with s1 feminized seeds, right? Then if you grow those out, reverse one and pollinate another s1 plant from seed what would you have? s2’s? More s1’s? Certainly if you used that pollen on the original plant it would be some kind of feminized bx, right? How would you work a feminized line really? These concepts blow my mind lol.

I know a lot of people do S1’s and stuff. But I’m talking about doing the F1 hybrid then instead of making an S1 with one plant you cross it to one of its sisters to then make F2. You could definitely do back crossing this way as well. I just don’t see people doing it.

SophisticatedBozo · Oct 5, 2022

Frosty78 said:
I could be wrong hitch but if you self it i think you have locked that phenotype if you use the feminised pollen on another female not related you have opened them up? That's how I read it, maybe schwaggy or someone else more learned can lead us to the answer. I have read offspring of feminised offspring are known as r1 r2 etc not filial f1. S1 is for self. Anyone else got the mail for hitch and myself?

From my understanding r1 is only used in cannabis, and is a misnomer. Also S1 doesn’t necessarily lock in a phenotype, for example if you have something that is multi poly hybrid it will have a wide range of phenotypes because it opens up the genetics and it shows you everything inside that specific plant.

Dino Party · Oct 5, 2022

Selfing a plant and using that pollen on a different seed of the same plant will further work and isolate traits in the next generation

Selfing a plant and using the pollen on that identical clone will refresh the gene pool and open back up all possibilities, for a lack of better terms cause I'm dum.

The reason many people don't make further generations in f2/f3 lines and then selfing to create feminized of a final product, is because people are lazy and greedy and want the money sooner. That's why people refer to what used to be called chucking as breeding now. You described actual breeding.

If you grow out some s1 seeds, reverse one again and hit another seed from that batch, you will have s2 generation. You could also Bx or do all the other stuff at that point as well if you had the original plants that made the seeds.

SophisticatedBozo · Oct 5, 2022

Dino Party said:
Selfing a plant and using that pollen on a different seed of the same plant will further work and isolate traits in the next generation

Selfing a plant and using the pollen on that identical clone will refresh the gene pool and open back up all possibilities, for a lack of better terms cause I'm dum.

The reason many people don't make further generations in f2/f3 lines and then selfing to create feminized of a final product, is because people are lazy and greedy and want the money sooner. That's why people refer to what used to be called chucking as breeding now. You described actual breeding.

If you grow out some s1 seeds, reverse one again and hit another seed from that batch, you will have s2 generation. You could also Bx or do all the other stuff at that point as well if you had the original plants that made the seeds.

What I am really trying to figure out is why people aren’t doing feminized F2 and beyond and working lines that way? Like where normal line breeding would be brother to sister, it would be sister to sister instead.

At a certain point you could make an S1 and they should all be pretty uniform. But you are right it does seem like a lot of breeders are just trying to smash things together and make money, not testing anything and so forth.

Would breeding two sisters together make sense or is doing an S1 just a better way to go about it?

GthaEnigma · Oct 5, 2022

I have two sisters I want to test that on. Just time /space constraints.

SophisticatedBozo · Oct 5, 2022

GthaEnigma said:
I have two sisters I want to test that on. Just time /space constraints.

I will definitely be watching for when you do, very interested to see the results!

GthaEnigma · Oct 5, 2022

My two Floss Sugar phenos would be perfect. They are from feminized seed, sexually stable indoor and out so far. Drastically different physical appearance, growth habits, and bud structure. Both are really nice. They smoke good, extract well. I have a project to get through first but I will be keeping both cuts around.

SophisticatedBozo · Oct 5, 2022

GthaEnigma said:
My two Floss Sugar phenos would be perfect. They are from feminized seed, sexually stable indoor and out so far. Drastically different physical appearance, growth habits, and bud structure. Both are really nice. They smoke good, extract well. I have a project to get through first but I will be keeping both cuts around.

Are you planning on doing S1’s of both as well? Would be interesting to run them side by side to compare.

Hawkman · Oct 5, 2022

Isn't the difference between F-1's F-2's ect is the stability of the genetics, Also know of a cultivator that keeps mother plant alive (now 3yrs) taking clones - but after a while dosen't the "purity" of the genetics change ?

Rozgreenburn · Oct 5, 2022

GthaEnigma said:
I have two sisters I want to test that on. Just time /space constraints.

Years ago, I was working on 2 sisters, but their father came home and I went out the window ?

GthaEnigma · Oct 5, 2022

SophisticatedBozo said:
Are you planning on doing S1’s of both as well? Would be interesting to run them side by side to compare.

I haven't fleshed out a plan as of yet but it would be intersting to do it both ways. I know that there are a couple of crosses that clearwater has released where he has done both sides as a reversal on the other.

SophisticatedBozo · Oct 5, 2022

Hawkman said:
Isn't the difference between F-1's F-2's ect is the stability of the genetics, Also know of a cultivator that keeps mother plant alive (now 3yrs) taking clones - but after a while dosen't the "purity" of the genetics change ?

From my understanding yes and no. F2 and F3 typically have the most genetic diversity and range of phenotypes.

As far as I know the actual genetic make up doesn’t change, as I have heard several breeders say that you can you cuts that aren’t what they used to be in outcrosses and they breed the same.

SophisticatedBozo · Oct 5, 2022

GthaEnigma said:
I haven't fleshed out a plan as of yet but it would be intersting to do it both ways. I know that there are a couple of crosses that clearwater has released where he has done both sides as a reversal on the other.

If nothing else you would at least be able to see what each parent is bringing to the cross. I have been wanting to try some feminized stuff but I want to get a little more familiar with regular breeding first.

Hawkman · Oct 5, 2022

Thanks ! guess for preserving genetics when cultivating out doors is impossible because of the "open pollination" some years ago had 6 plants that got cross polllianted from other plants, there for losing orginal genetics so to say. for keeping the mother a live under 18/6 requireed to adjust one's nutrients to the "Mother"

SophisticatedBozo said:
If nothing else you would at least be able to see what each parent is bringing to the cross. I have been wanting to try some feminized stuff but I want to get a little more familiar with regular breeding first.

Wishing good vibes on your breeding project ! It takes a lot of time and intentions which are the factors between seed breedrers vs seed makers

Feminized breeding question

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