Schwaggy P's Random Stuff

[Schwaggy P]

​

Peruse any seed bank catalogue and it won’t take too long before your eyes begin to glaze over in the sea of possibility. So many different strains that one can easily become overwhelmed with options. Take for instance this cart:

Sensi Super Skunk
Nirvana Big Bud
HSO Green Crack
Aficionado Critical Mass
Mr. Nice Nordle​

This seems like a diverse group of strains that could have endless phenotypic possibilities requiring much effort to parse through growing. But, let’s look at the list a different way:

Sensi Super Skunk (Skunk#1 x Afghan)
Nirvana Big Bud (Afghan x Skunk#1)
HSO Green Crack (Skunk#1 x Afghan)
Aficionado Critical Mass (Afghan x Skunk#1)
Mr. Nice Nordle (Afghan x Skunk#1)​

See it? They’re all Afghan Skunk. Now, I’m not saying that they are all the same seed stock, same P1 selection, or will all give you the same results. The point is to take a large bit of seemingly unrelated information and reducing it to its essence. If you’ve grown out a few Afghan Skunks, you’ll have a rough idea of what to expect: Medium frame, Sweet-to-funky smell, solid yield, short-medium flower time, etc. . What was once a sea of possibility has now been reduced to variations on a theme. There is nuance to this that I’ll get into later but I want to just build the concept first.

The need to reduce strains to their base genetics seems to be more necessary as time goes on because names are becoming more abstract and constantly augmenting an already massive list. Strains mostly enjoy a naming scheme that clearly express the parental genetics involved. G13 Haze, Blueberry Skunk, and Purple OG leave you with little ambiguity as to what was involved or what to expect.

Even the names that break from this convention into non-genetic based monikers such as Girl Scout Cookies, Early Pearl, and Humboldt Snow hint at some observable characteristic to expect. A grower can at least look forward to cookies smell/taste, quick flowering, or a frosty plant based on these names. The more abstract names that have little to no relation to an observable trait of cannabis can leave one confused. My purpose is not to dismiss or say these are 'incorrect', the point is how to find the signal in the noise of the names when simply read as is. For example: Cougar Milk, Pillow book, and Garfunkle do not give much of a hint as to the involved parental genetics or any observable trait. Looking into Garfunkle, you see it is (Dumpster x 88G13HP) and can now expect Afghan type traits. If you were looking for a nice sedating influence, this strain now is applicable to your project where before it was an abstract unknown.

Here are two strains that by their name give little clue as to what is happening genetically (again, not a knock) but similarities become apparent when reduced to their genetic base.

Madness (Hazeman) - (Bubba Kush x 88G13HP)?Afghan
Deep Line Alchemy #9 (Bodhi) - (Kush 4 x 88G13HP)? Afghan

I find analyzing strains with this genetic reductionism to help conceptualize what I’m getting into when growing out different strains or planning a project. I like to think of genetics from the perspective of a handful of base lines that provide the ingredients to all of the work available. I think of the base lines as Afghan, Haze, Skunk, OG, & Chem. To me, these each evoke a clear morphology all their own and each serves as a great collective of expectations when encountering them. To reiterate, this is my personal list that is effected by that which I mostly deal with; your list may differ and that’s great. The point is to devise a method of analyzing seemingly different and chaotic genetics that is useful for you.

For example, I can understand if someone included Cookies to the list of base genes as it quickly conjures a morphology and trait spectrum of its own. Although one could further reduce cookies to an OG variant, the fact that it is as ubiquitous in modern work validates this category as a method of quick reference when conceptualizing what such strains brings to the table. Similar criticism could be leveled at my use of Chem as a base strain as it could be further reduced to Afghan variants but as my personal endeavors heavily use this offshoot, it is applicable. It is more helpful for me to think of Chem as a base ingredient as so much work is based on this specific line. Again, the point to all this is to give yourself a shorthand way of quickly analyzing many different strains in a manner that is easily conceptualized and greatly helps in the planning of project pairings later on.

Now, you maybe thinking, “But that’s so generic! Afghan doesn’t include Pakis or Indian lines. Where is the room for nuance?” First off, for every Paki or Indian line, there are 20 Afghani lines. This process has to be practical for you. Nuance comes with deeper analysis after the superficial parsing of information. Once you’ve decided you want to find a solid Kush, you can further broaden your analysis to include the nuanced similar strains that can give you specifics you’re looking for.

Suppose I offer to take you to breakfast at a new restaurant. I’ve already been to this place before and keep raving about their biscuits and gravy (BnG). You like BnG so decide it’s what you’ll order. At this point, you only have a rough estimation of what will ultimately be presented to you when served; some type of savory baked good with some kind of fat-based sauce. Although you’re sold on the BnG, you decide to look at the menu description of the dish.

“2 flaky buttermilk biscuits served with a sausage country gravy”​

Now you have a better idea of what you’re in for. It will not be until to take a bite that you get the nuance of how it was seasoned, the spiciness of the sausage used, the flakiness of the biscuits, etc.

Now, next week I tell you I’m taking you to a different restaurant to try the Goobagoo. You’re at a loss?‍♂️. You’ve never heard this word before and have no earthly idea what the hell that is. You get the restaurant and open the menu to read

“2 crumbly cream biscuits served with thickened chorizo au jus”​

It hits you, Goobagoo is just a variation on biscuits and gravy. The biscuits are a little different texture, the sausage is a bit spicier, and the gravy is darker and a bit thinner, but it’s just BnG. The differences between the two dishes is within a range of possibility. You aren’t ordering BnG and getting served a pasta dish.

This same concept was at play at the beginning when I named

Sensi Super Skunk
Nirvana Big Bud
HSO Green Crack
Aficionado Critical Mass
Mr. Nice Nordle​

They, like the Goobagoo, seemed like a spectrum of wide possibility, but upon reading the menu, you realize they’re all Afghan Skunk. Sure, there will be variations in the “spiciness, texture, portion, and flavor balance” (potency, density, yield, and smell/taste) but the point is to give a quick analysis for what you’re about to “eat”.

I’ve found this practice to help make sense of seemingly unrelated genetics and help with planning out project pairings. After awhile it became a default method to analyze seed drops and seed bank menus. It's a mental lineage chart breakdown that gets to the essence of it. Just as assessing phenotypes, you aren’t necessarily systematically going through an exhaustive checklist of traits to make conclusions, you kind of implicitly make the assessment. I’ll expand on this concept in a later post, “Planned Purposeful Pairings”.

 

[Kanzeon]

Well that's one of the best posts in all of internet history. That's like a modern day breeding 101 course right there. 11/10, will read again.

 

[OldG]

Timing is everything...Thanks Schwaggy !

 

[JL2G]

View attachment 84932​

Peruse any seed bank catalogue and it won’t take too long before your eyes begin to glaze over in the sea of possibility. So many different strains that one can easily become overwhelmed with options. Take for instance this cart:

Sensi Super Skunk
Nirvana Big Bud
HSO Green Crack
Aficionado Critical Mass
Mr. Nice Nordle​

This seems like a diverse group of strains that could have endless phenotypic possibilities requiring much effort to parse through growing. But, let’s look at the list a different way:

Sensi Super Skunk (Skunk#1 x Afghan)
Nirvana Big Bud (Afghan x Skunk#1)
HSO Green Crack (Skunk#1 x Afghan)
Aficionado Critical Mass (Afghan x Skunk#1)
Mr. Nice Nordle (Afghan x Skunk#1)​

See it? They’re all Afghan Skunk. Now, I’m not saying that they are all the same seed stock, same P1 selection, or will all give you the same results. The point is to take a large bit of seemingly unrelated information and reducing it to its essence. If you’ve grown out a few Afghan Skunks, you’ll have a rough idea of what to expect: Medium frame, Sweet-to-funky smell, solid yield, short-medium flower time, etc. . What was once a sea of possibility has now been reduced to variations on a theme. There is nuance to this that I’ll get into later but I want to just build the concept first.

The need to reduce strains to their base genetics seems to be more necessary as time goes on because names are becoming more abstract and constantly augmenting an already massive list. Strains mostly enjoy a naming scheme that clearly express the parental genetics involved. G13 Haze, Blueberry Skunk, and Purple OG leave you with little ambiguity as to what was involved or what to expect.

Even the names that break from this convention into non-genetic based monikers such as Girl Scout Cookies, Early Pearl, and Humboldt Snow hint at some observable characteristic to expect. A grower can at least look forward to cookies smell/taste, quick flowering, or a frosty plant based on these names. The more abstract names that have little to no relation to an observable trait of cannabis can leave one confused. My purpose is not to dismiss or say these are 'incorrect', the point is how to find the signal in the noise of the names when simply read as is. For example: Cougar Milk, Pillow book, and Garfunkle do not give much of a hint as to the involved parental genetics or any observable trait. Looking into Garfunkle, you see it is (Dumpster x 88G13HP) and can now expect Afghan type traits. If you were looking for a nice sedating influence, this strain now is applicable to your project where before it was an abstract unknown.

Here are two strains that by their name give little clue as to what is happening genetically (again, not a knock) but similarities become apparent when reduced to their genetic base.

Madness (Hazeman) - (Bubba Kush x 88G13HP)?Afghan
Deep Line Alchemy #9 (Bodhi) - (Kush 4 x 88G13HP)? Afghan

I find analyzing strains with this genetic reductionism to help conceptualize what I’m getting into when growing out different strains or planning a project. I like to think of genetics from the perspective of a handful of base lines that provide the ingredients to all of the work available. I think of the base lines as Afghan, Haze, Skunk, OG, & Chem. To me, these each evoke a clear morphology all their own and each serves as a great collective of expectations when encountering them. To reiterate, this is my personal list that is effected by that which I mostly deal with; your list may differ and that’s great. The point is to devise a method of analyzing seemingly different and chaotic genetics that is useful for you.

For example, I can understand if someone included Cookies to the list of base genes as it quickly conjures a morphology and trait spectrum of its own. Although one could further reduce cookies to an OG variant, the fact that it is as ubiquitous in modern work validates this category as a method of quick reference when conceptualizing what such strains brings to the table. Similar criticism could be leveled at my use of Chem as a base strain as it could be further reduced to Afghan variants but as my personal endeavors heavily use this offshoot, it is applicable. It is more helpful for me to think of Chem as a base ingredient as so much work is based on this specific line. Again, the point to all this is to give yourself a shorthand way of quickly analyzing many different strains in a manner that is easily conceptualized and greatly helps in the planning of project pairings later on.

Now, you maybe thinking, “But that’s so generic! Afghan doesn’t include Pakis or Indian lines. Where is the room for nuance?” First off, for every Paki or Indian line, there are 20 Afghani lines. This process has to be practical for you. Nuance comes with deeper analysis after the superficial parsing of information. Once you’ve decided you want to find a solid Kush, you can further broaden your analysis to include the nuanced similar strains that can give you specifics you’re looking for.

Suppose I offer to take you to breakfast at a new restaurant. I’ve already been to this place before and keep raving about their biscuits and gravy (BnG). You like BnG so decide it’s what you’ll order. At this point, you only have a rough estimation of what will ultimately be presented to you when served; some type of savory baked good with some kind of fat-based sauce. Although you’re sold on the BnG, you decide to look at the menu description of the dish.

“2 flaky buttermilk biscuits served with a sausage country gravy”​

Now you have a better idea of what you’re in for. It will not be until to take a bite that you get the nuance of how it was seasoned, the spiciness of the sausage used, the flakiness of the biscuits, etc.

Now, next week I tell you I’m taking you to a different restaurant to try the Goobagoo. You’re at a loss?‍♂️. You’ve never heard this word before and have no earthly idea what the hell that is. You get the restaurant and open the menu to read

“2 crumbly cream biscuits served with thickened chorizo au jus”​

It hits you, Goobagoo is just a variation on biscuits and gravy. The biscuits are a little different texture, the sausage is a bit spicier, and the gravy is darker and a bit thinner, but it’s just BnG. The differences between the two dishes is within a range of possibility. You aren’t ordering BnG and getting served a pasta dish.

This same concept was at play at the beginning when I named

Sensi Super Skunk
Nirvana Big Bud
HSO Green Crack
Aficionado Critical Mass
Mr. Nice Nordle​

They, like the Goobagoo, seemed like a spectrum of wide possibility, but upon reading the menu, you realize they’re all Afghan Skunk. Sure, there will be variations in the “spiciness, texture, portion, and flavor balance” (potency, density, yield, and smell/taste) but the point is to give a quick analysis for what you’re about to “eat”.

I’ve found this practice to help make sense of seemingly unrelated genetics and help with planning out project pairings. After awhile it became a default method to analyze seed drops and seed bank menus. It's a mental lineage chart breakdown that gets to the essence of it. Just as assessing phenotypes, you aren’t necessarily systematically going through an exhaustive checklist of traits to make conclusions, you kind of implicitly make the assessment. I’ll expand on this concept in a later post, “Planned Purposeful Pairings”.

That my friend was an awesome post. Love the info.

 

[Brokehoe]

I have been here for a while but recently found this thread and then it was recommended to me by another member. I'm not done reading the whole thing but it is full of knowledge. I am going to include that this be read in my welcome messages. Thank you @Schwaggy P

View attachment 84932​

Peruse any seed bank catalogue and it won’t take too long before your eyes begin to glaze over in the sea of possibility. So many different strains that one can easily become overwhelmed with options. Take for instance this cart:

Sensi Super Skunk
Nirvana Big Bud
HSO Green Crack
Aficionado Critical Mass
Mr. Nice Nordle​

This seems like a diverse group of strains that could have endless phenotypic possibilities requiring much effort to parse through growing. But, let’s look at the list a different way:

Sensi Super Skunk (Skunk#1 x Afghan)
Nirvana Big Bud (Afghan x Skunk#1)
HSO Green Crack (Skunk#1 x Afghan)
Aficionado Critical Mass (Afghan x Skunk#1)
Mr. Nice Nordle (Afghan x Skunk#1)​

See it? They’re all Afghan Skunk. Now, I’m not saying that they are all the same seed stock, same P1 selection, or will all give you the same results. The point is to take a large bit of seemingly unrelated information and reducing it to its essence. If you’ve grown out a few Afghan Skunks, you’ll have a rough idea of what to expect: Medium frame, Sweet-to-funky smell, solid yield, short-medium flower time, etc. . What was once a sea of possibility has now been reduced to variations on a theme. There is nuance to this that I’ll get into later but I want to just build the concept first.

The need to reduce strains to their base genetics seems to be more necessary as time goes on because names are becoming more abstract and constantly augmenting an already massive list. Strains mostly enjoy a naming scheme that clearly express the parental genetics involved. G13 Haze, Blueberry Skunk, and Purple OG leave you with little ambiguity as to what was involved or what to expect.

Even the names that break from this convention into non-genetic based monikers such as Girl Scout Cookies, Early Pearl, and Humboldt Snow hint at some observable characteristic to expect. A grower can at least look forward to cookies smell/taste, quick flowering, or a frosty plant based on these names. The more abstract names that have little to no relation to an observable trait of cannabis can leave one confused. My purpose is not to dismiss or say these are 'incorrect', the point is how to find the signal in the noise of the names when simply read as is. For example: Cougar Milk, Pillow book, and Garfunkle do not give much of a hint as to the involved parental genetics or any observable trait. Looking into Garfunkle, you see it is (Dumpster x 88G13HP) and can now expect Afghan type traits. If you were looking for a nice sedating influence, this strain now is applicable to your project where before it was an abstract unknown.

Here are two strains that by their name give little clue as to what is happening genetically (again, not a knock) but similarities become apparent when reduced to their genetic base.

Madness (Hazeman) - (Bubba Kush x 88G13HP)?Afghan
Deep Line Alchemy #9 (Bodhi) - (Kush 4 x 88G13HP)? Afghan

I find analyzing strains with this genetic reductionism to help conceptualize what I’m getting into when growing out different strains or planning a project. I like to think of genetics from the perspective of a handful of base lines that provide the ingredients to all of the work available. I think of the base lines as Afghan, Haze, Skunk, OG, & Chem. To me, these each evoke a clear morphology all their own and each serves as a great collective of expectations when encountering them. To reiterate, this is my personal list that is effected by that which I mostly deal with; your list may differ and that’s great. The point is to devise a method of analyzing seemingly different and chaotic genetics that is useful for you.

For example, I can understand if someone included Cookies to the list of base genes as it quickly conjures a morphology and trait spectrum of its own. Although one could further reduce cookies to an OG variant, the fact that it is as ubiquitous in modern work validates this category as a method of quick reference when conceptualizing what such strains brings to the table. Similar criticism could be leveled at my use of Chem as a base strain as it could be further reduced to Afghan variants but as my personal endeavors heavily use this offshoot, it is applicable. It is more helpful for me to think of Chem as a base ingredient as so much work is based on this specific line. Again, the point to all this is to give yourself a shorthand way of quickly analyzing many different strains in a manner that is easily conceptualized and greatly helps in the planning of project pairings later on.

Now, you maybe thinking, “But that’s so generic! Afghan doesn’t include Pakis or Indian lines. Where is the room for nuance?” First off, for every Paki or Indian line, there are 20 Afghani lines. This process has to be practical for you. Nuance comes with deeper analysis after the superficial parsing of information. Once you’ve decided you want to find a solid Kush, you can further broaden your analysis to include the nuanced similar strains that can give you specifics you’re looking for.

Suppose I offer to take you to breakfast at a new restaurant. I’ve already been to this place before and keep raving about their biscuits and gravy (BnG). You like BnG so decide it’s what you’ll order. At this point, you only have a rough estimation of what will ultimately be presented to you when served; some type of savory baked good with some kind of fat-based sauce. Although you’re sold on the BnG, you decide to look at the menu description of the dish.

“2 flaky buttermilk biscuits served with a sausage country gravy”​

Now you have a better idea of what you’re in for. It will not be until to take a bite that you get the nuance of how it was seasoned, the spiciness of the sausage used, the flakiness of the biscuits, etc.

Now, next week I tell you I’m taking you to a different restaurant to try the Goobagoo. You’re at a loss?‍♂️. You’ve never heard this word before and have no earthly idea what the hell that is. You get the restaurant and open the menu to read

“2 crumbly cream biscuits served with thickened chorizo au jus”​

It hits you, Goobagoo is just a variation on biscuits and gravy. The biscuits are a little different texture, the sausage is a bit spicier, and the gravy is darker and a bit thinner, but it’s just BnG. The differences between the two dishes is within a range of possibility. You aren’t ordering BnG and getting served a pasta dish.

This same concept was at play at the beginning when I named

Sensi Super Skunk
Nirvana Big Bud
HSO Green Crack
Aficionado Critical Mass
Mr. Nice Nordle​

They, like the Goobagoo, seemed like a spectrum of wide possibility, but upon reading the menu, you realize they’re all Afghan Skunk. Sure, there will be variations in the “spiciness, texture, portion, and flavor balance” (potency, density, yield, and smell/taste) but the point is to give a quick analysis for what you’re about to “eat”.

I’ve found this practice to help make sense of seemingly unrelated genetics and help with planning out project pairings. After awhile it became a default method to analyze seed drops and seed bank menus. It's a mental lineage chart breakdown that gets to the essence of it. Just as assessing phenotypes, you aren’t necessarily systematically going through an exhaustive checklist of traits to make conclusions, you kind of implicitly make the assessment. I’ll expand on this concept in a later post, “Planned Purposeful Pairings”.

I love this and I always try to research strains before any purchases. I like to research different strains for fun. I'm still new to this world but find it fascinating.

 

[Dino Party]

View attachment 84932​

Peruse any seed bank catalogue and it won’t take too long before your eyes begin to glaze over in the sea of possibility. So many different strains that one can easily become overwhelmed with options. Take for instance this cart:

Sensi Super Skunk
Nirvana Big Bud
HSO Green Crack
Aficionado Critical Mass
Mr. Nice Nordle​

This seems like a diverse group of strains that could have endless phenotypic possibilities requiring much effort to parse through growing. But, let’s look at the list a different way:

Sensi Super Skunk (Skunk#1 x Afghan)
Nirvana Big Bud (Afghan x Skunk#1)
HSO Green Crack (Skunk#1 x Afghan)
Aficionado Critical Mass (Afghan x Skunk#1)
Mr. Nice Nordle (Afghan x Skunk#1)​

See it? They’re all Afghan Skunk. Now, I’m not saying that they are all the same seed stock, same P1 selection, or will all give you the same results. The point is to take a large bit of seemingly unrelated information and reducing it to its essence. If you’ve grown out a few Afghan Skunks, you’ll have a rough idea of what to expect: Medium frame, Sweet-to-funky smell, solid yield, short-medium flower time, etc. . What was once a sea of possibility has now been reduced to variations on a theme. There is nuance to this that I’ll get into later but I want to just build the concept first.

The need to reduce strains to their base genetics seems to be more necessary as time goes on because names are becoming more abstract and constantly augmenting an already massive list. Strains mostly enjoy a naming scheme that clearly express the parental genetics involved. G13 Haze, Blueberry Skunk, and Purple OG leave you with little ambiguity as to what was involved or what to expect.

Even the names that break from this convention into non-genetic based monikers such as Girl Scout Cookies, Early Pearl, and Humboldt Snow hint at some observable characteristic to expect. A grower can at least look forward to cookies smell/taste, quick flowering, or a frosty plant based on these names. The more abstract names that have little to no relation to an observable trait of cannabis can leave one confused. My purpose is not to dismiss or say these are 'incorrect', the point is how to find the signal in the noise of the names when simply read as is. For example: Cougar Milk, Pillow book, and Garfunkle do not give much of a hint as to the involved parental genetics or any observable trait. Looking into Garfunkle, you see it is (Dumpster x 88G13HP) and can now expect Afghan type traits. If you were looking for a nice sedating influence, this strain now is applicable to your project where before it was an abstract unknown.

Here are two strains that by their name give little clue as to what is happening genetically (again, not a knock) but similarities become apparent when reduced to their genetic base.

Madness (Hazeman) - (Bubba Kush x 88G13HP)?Afghan
Deep Line Alchemy #9 (Bodhi) - (Kush 4 x 88G13HP)? Afghan

I find analyzing strains with this genetic reductionism to help conceptualize what I’m getting into when growing out different strains or planning a project. I like to think of genetics from the perspective of a handful of base lines that provide the ingredients to all of the work available. I think of the base lines as Afghan, Haze, Skunk, OG, & Chem. To me, these each evoke a clear morphology all their own and each serves as a great collective of expectations when encountering them. To reiterate, this is my personal list that is effected by that which I mostly deal with; your list may differ and that’s great. The point is to devise a method of analyzing seemingly different and chaotic genetics that is useful for you.

For example, I can understand if someone included Cookies to the list of base genes as it quickly conjures a morphology and trait spectrum of its own. Although one could further reduce cookies to an OG variant, the fact that it is as ubiquitous in modern work validates this category as a method of quick reference when conceptualizing what such strains brings to the table. Similar criticism could be leveled at my use of Chem as a base strain as it could be further reduced to Afghan variants but as my personal endeavors heavily use this offshoot, it is applicable. It is more helpful for me to think of Chem as a base ingredient as so much work is based on this specific line. Again, the point to all this is to give yourself a shorthand way of quickly analyzing many different strains in a manner that is easily conceptualized and greatly helps in the planning of project pairings later on.

Now, you maybe thinking, “But that’s so generic! Afghan doesn’t include Pakis or Indian lines. Where is the room for nuance?” First off, for every Paki or Indian line, there are 20 Afghani lines. This process has to be practical for you. Nuance comes with deeper analysis after the superficial parsing of information. Once you’ve decided you want to find a solid Kush, you can further broaden your analysis to include the nuanced similar strains that can give you specifics you’re looking for.

Suppose I offer to take you to breakfast at a new restaurant. I’ve already been to this place before and keep raving about their biscuits and gravy (BnG). You like BnG so decide it’s what you’ll order. At this point, you only have a rough estimation of what will ultimately be presented to you when served; some type of savory baked good with some kind of fat-based sauce. Although you’re sold on the BnG, you decide to look at the menu description of the dish.

“2 flaky buttermilk biscuits served with a sausage country gravy”​

Now you have a better idea of what you’re in for. It will not be until to take a bite that you get the nuance of how it was seasoned, the spiciness of the sausage used, the flakiness of the biscuits, etc.

Now, next week I tell you I’m taking you to a different restaurant to try the Goobagoo. You’re at a loss?‍♂️. You’ve never heard this word before and have no earthly idea what the hell that is. You get the restaurant and open the menu to read

“2 crumbly cream biscuits served with thickened chorizo au jus”​

It hits you, Goobagoo is just a variation on biscuits and gravy. The biscuits are a little different texture, the sausage is a bit spicier, and the gravy is darker and a bit thinner, but it’s just BnG. The differences between the two dishes is within a range of possibility. You aren’t ordering BnG and getting served a pasta dish.

This same concept was at play at the beginning when I named

Sensi Super Skunk
Nirvana Big Bud
HSO Green Crack
Aficionado Critical Mass
Mr. Nice Nordle​

They, like the Goobagoo, seemed like a spectrum of wide possibility, but upon reading the menu, you realize they’re all Afghan Skunk. Sure, there will be variations in the “spiciness, texture, portion, and flavor balance” (potency, density, yield, and smell/taste) but the point is to give a quick analysis for what you’re about to “eat”.

I’ve found this practice to help make sense of seemingly unrelated genetics and help with planning out project pairings. After awhile it became a default method to analyze seed drops and seed bank menus. It's a mental lineage chart breakdown that gets to the essence of it. Just as assessing phenotypes, you aren’t necessarily systematically going through an exhaustive checklist of traits to make conclusions, you kind of implicitly make the assessment. I’ll expand on this concept in a later post, “Planned Purposeful Pairings”.

Psh, everybody knows the REAL way to do this is find two strains that would make a cool name, force it to work, and just lie when you can’t get ahold of one of the parent plants you wanted.

But your biscuits and gravy analogy got me hungry.

 

[Brokehoe]

I wanted to thank @Schwaggy P publicly for the package received today. Generous isn't even the word.

Thank you very much. I'm a man of small mind and vocabulary so I feel like a broken record but you are awesome.

Let's just say if I pulled a smash and grab at a seed bank I wouldn't have made out better than what I received today. Lol

 

[Frimpong]

Ahhhhh refreshing, thx @Schwaggy P

 

[GthaEnigma]

I hear the sound of another schwaggy bomb landing. They are bombs of happiness and yes awesome. You are the man @Schwaggy P.

 

[Schwaggy P]

​

There isn’t much difficulty behind choosing a female for breeding projects, but males can be a bit of a mystery. Ultimately you want a pairing to produce stellar female plants but are shackled to a contributor that can show you no female traits. This blindness is what creates the dilemma in this process. I’d like to outline how I think about making a selection. This is not the only perspective or method but is a logical and fruitful guide that can help give a starting point.

The greatest prerequisite for making a male selection is having a clear idea about what you’d like to accomplish. The answer to the question, “What do you look for when picking a male,” is, “it depends.” When you know where you want to go, it’s easier to plan the route and know what to pack. Your clear idea of intent will affect the breeding technique employed and subsequently the criteria by which you will make your selection.

Knowing is half the battle. Have an idea about what your ideal target plants should express. List those traits that are “must haves” in order of priority. This articulated checklist will give you the blueprint to not only the male selection but subsequent phenotypic selections for further work of the line. Think about the female plant that you’ve chosen and what qualities prompted you to want to use her for making new plants. Conversely, think about things you’d like to improve about this plant or see contributed to your final population of new plants.

Different motivations can be driving this process and articulating or at least being aware of them will go a long way to making them a reality.

Possible Motivations:

• You love a particular female so much that you’d like to get her into seed form as closely as possible in case you lose the cut
• Find a female that is great smoke but could use some structural improvements to make the growing process less work intensive
• Would like a male version of a female to use in making regular seed hybrids
• Find great qualities in two different lines and would like to explore a hybrid of your two favorite lines
• Love a cut but she doesn’t transfer well in crosses and would like to have her breed more true for specific traits

Understanding the purpose behind the project will give you a better idea about what breeding technique/method will be your best shot at getting the targeted results. For a rough outline of these techniques and how they influence male selection:

Backcrossing​

This is a process whereby the target plant is pollinated by successive progeny in order to reinforce the genetic contribution of the target female to resultant progeny. You would cross your female with a male, choose a male from the F1 generation to use to pollinate your original female (BX1). As a male is chosen from each new back-crossed generation and used to pollinate (or cross back to) the target female, the phenotype of the target female is further reinforced in subsequent progeny. Usually the process stops around BX#3 (cubing) as the resultant plants would have about 94% contribution from the target female. This is considered a good stopping point since the target female’s phenotype will theoretically be “locked down” in the progeny.

​

Selecting males for a backcross (BX)​

There are 2 methods for selection when backcrossing and they are dictated by the process of identifying the male plants most like your target female later on. The first is to select a male that has as many similar qualities as the female plant. Since your purpose is to end up with plants that look like the female, using a male that already has many similarities will give you an advantage since you’ll be reinforcing many of your target traits. The downside to this method is that selecting which male to use for the next backcrossing that leans towards the female is very difficult since you are choosing between such similar looking plants. Knowing which male leans towards the female vs the male is difficult in this scenario.

An alternative is to choose a male that is as different as possible in all observable traits to do your initial F1 outcross. While this seems counterproductive, it makes selecting your next male easier since you’ll be able to quickly identify that male which leans most to the female.

Filial​

The “F” in F1,F2,…etc., stands for ‘filial’. This refers to generations after an initial crossing between parent plants (P1) resulting in the first filial generation (F1). Selected Males and females from the F1 generation are then crossed to give the second filial generation (F2). This type of breeding is used to “work a line” by reducing the range of possible traits within a gene pool to give a shorter range of trait expressions. The further into filial generations you go, generally, the more “stable” or consistent the pheno/geno-types become. This process gives you the ability to identify those plants in a line that are dominant for target traits and cross them to create truer breeding plants (more reliably pass along target traits as they become more dominant).

Selecting males for filial breeding​

Where backcrossing gave 2 clear procedures, filial is far less structured since the goal is not defined in the concept itself (BX goal is to solidify a known female plant, where filial breeding seeks to create an unrealized plant). Know what your ideal target plants will express. List those traits that are “must haves” in order of priority. This articulated checklist will give you the blueprint to not only the male selection but subsequent phenotypic selections for further work of the line. Think about the female plant that you’ve chosen and what qualities prompted you to want to use her for making new plants. Conversely, think about things you’d like to improve about this plant or see contributed to your final population of new plants.

That ideal plant you’ve mentally conceived and all the traits therein will be your guide in this process. Since we are limited to mostly traits in veg and a few in flower (assuming you put the male population through 12/12), we will be making choices based mostly on sight (as opposed to taste, smoke, post-cure smell, etc.) Generally, you want your male to compliment your female in some way.

This compliment can take the form of bringing a trait to the pairing in which the female is deficient. Perhaps your female’s stems are floppy under the weight of fat buds and you’d like to beef up her stem strength. In this case, you know that the sturdiest stems in your male population are gaining priority over the weaker stemmed phenos. Maybe this female’s petioles are very short and can restrict light penetration so you’d like to elongate these. Now you know that your male population with both sturdy stems and long petioles will provide your stud. But wait, there’s more! You love your female’s funky scent and don’t want to water it down, so you start using stem rubs to assess the funk of your strong stemmed, long petioled males. With these complimentary traits prioritized and your careful observation, the males are practically selecting themselves.

So you make your first filial generation (F1) and grow out this population to ready your next round of selections. Since you were aiming for long petioled, strong stemmed, funky smelling plants that gave you a solid representation of your P1 mother, selecting the female F1 plant to use for the F2 is relatively easy. Selecting the male F1 to use for pollinating her to make the F2 pretty much mirrors the process you used before. You can continue the filial generations until you are happy with the rate of female phenotypes expressing the long petioles+sturdiness+funk. This repeating process may take until F4+ before you are satisfied.

?Consider this: Are you breeding to have a better cut for your own purposes, or are you breeding to make a seed line that will spit out predictable phenos consistently? If you just want a cut for your own purposes, then you can stop the process the moment you see the first female that checks the boxes for the traits you want. There’s no reason to keep laboring with filial line work if you don’t need a seed line with reliable plants. ​

Preservation​

Preserving lines is a way to keep genetics “pure” and viable with periodic runs of fresh seed for future use. This means not introducing new genetics by hybridization. Preservation can take the form of open pollination or selective preservation. Open pollination refers to the use of all males and females freely pollinating in an attempt to keep the largest range of possibilities within a specific line; for good and bad. Selected preservation refers to preserving a line’s best qualities while “working out” the less desirable traits. Obviously, open pollination renders male selection moot as you are using them all, so I’ll touch on selective preservation.

Selecting males for preservation​

You may consider selective preservation when you are not able to provide venue for several male and females dropping pollen and ripening seeds or if you’d like to refine a strain while keeping the majority of traits pure. In the case of limited space, you are confronted with having to select a male for your preservation and must decide between what is most characteristic for the line vs. what is most convenient for its future use.

Let’s take Thai for example. This strain has great landrace sativa qualities but has a strong tendency to express intersex traits. If you are a die-hard purest, you may not mind using plants that express this trait as it is characteristic and most closely maintains the fidelity of what it means to be a Thai. In this case, you would pick the most stereotypical “Thai” male that embodies every conceivable trait associated with Thai (including the intersexing). While conversely, you enjoy everything about Thai EXCEPT for the intersex traits. Now you have a clear set of guidelines for your selection process. Tall, longer flowering, racy effect, and no intersex traits.

Compound Path​

Some projects can be the amalgam of reducible methods and can shift the approach in male selection. Multiple steps towards a single goal may be required and understanding how the changing method can influence a change in the criteria based on the above info will help out. For example, I want to make a true F1 hybrid of Afghan and Haze. I say “true F1” because this means, a first filial generation of two unrelated true breeding P1 stock. As opposed to what we now consider F1, a first filial generation of any two P1 regardless of genotype. I would have to work on my Afghan and Haze separately to get them in shape to be true breeding for the handful of traits I’d like to be dealing with in the eventual hybrid. I could use backcrossing to “cube” (BX3) each line before using filial breeding to make the F1 hybrid for further refinement. This means my project has now reduced to the steps:

BX Afghan

• using an Afghan male that has clear differences from female for the BX1 (1male)
• using similar males for the subsequent BX2 and BX3 (2males)

BX Haze

• using a Haze male that has clear differences from female for the BX1 (1male)
• using similar males for the subsequent BX2 and BX3 (2males)

Filial breed F1

• (Afghan x Haze) or (Haze x Afghan) (1male)

Filial breed F2

• (Afghan F1 x Haze F1) or (Haze F1 x Afghan F1) (1male)

Filial breed F3

• (Afghan F2 x Haze F2) or (Haze F2 x Afghan F2) (1male)

In this example, there were 9 male selections used to get to my final generation of plants. This task was broken into the different steps and their methods helped in the process of male selection. This entire endeavor culminated in a final product that would’ve seemed daunting at first.

Assessing Males: before & after ​

Choosing males before ever observing their progeny is a blind choice as you are making assumptions based on the observable traits. It will not be until you grow out his product that you will get a better idea about how those assumptions translate in pairings. Sometimes the plants express the qualities you expected, other times not so much. This discrepancy is an issue of genetic dominance that, even if you didn’t want to concern yourself with explicitly, will implicitly be understood by the frequency of its expression in the progeny.

This is best summarized with a thought from Mr. Soul (paraphrasing):

If you wanted to make women with large breasts, don’t look for a man with large breasts, look for a man whose daughters have large breasts because the proof is in the pudding. ​

General Observations about Males​

Males tend to auto flower easier than females in soil. It seems the slightest root binding will set off males to begin to throw pollen sacs in veg and can be a pain to get them to quit. If you plan on keeping a male in the library, consider setting him up in a hydro setup or be mindful of his pot size. This trait Is pretty ubiquitous with males but some will be able to handle themselves better than others.​

You can generalize about the yield of a male by the relative amount of pollen sacs.​

Phenotypes tend to “stick together” across sex. If you were to segregate phenos based on your basic observable structure traits in veg before sexual maturity, you’ll generally find that the similar phenos stay true to those similarities after they reveal sex. I’ll give an example to make this clearer: I grew out Appalachian Super Skunk and found the female pheno that I really enjoyed. Wanting a male ASS, I grew out more and looked for the male that most closely resembled the features of my female and found that his progeny spit out phenos very similar to the original female pheno. This means that you can grow out half of your total population of seeds to find the keeper female and know exactly what to look for in a male when you pop the other half of your seeds since she provides all the traits to select for assuming you wanted a male version of the female.​

 

[Gentlemancorpse]

View attachment 85833​

There isn’t much difficulty behind choosing a female for breeding projects, but males can be a bit of a mystery. Ultimately you want a pairing to produce stellar female plants but are shackled to a contributor that can show you no female traits. This blindness is what creates the dilemma in this process. I’d like to outline how I think about making a selection. This is not the only perspective or method but is a logical and fruitful guide that can help give a starting point.

The greatest prerequisite for making a male selection is having a clear idea about what you’d like to accomplish. The answer to the question, “What do you look for when picking a male,” is, “it depends.” When you know where you want to go, it’s easier to plan the route and know what to pack. Your clear idea of intent will affect the breeding technique employed and subsequently the criteria by which you will make your selection.

Knowing is half the battle. Have an idea about what your ideal target plants should express. List those traits that are “must haves” in order of priority. This articulated checklist will give you the blueprint to not only the male selection but subsequent phenotypic selections for further work of the line. Think about the female plant that you’ve chosen and what qualities prompted you to want to use her for making new plants. Conversely, think about things you’d like to improve about this plant or see contributed to your final population of new plants.

Different motivations can be driving this process and articulating or at least being aware of them will go a long way to making them a reality.

Possible Motivations:

• You love a particular female so much that you’d like to get her into seed form as closely as possible in case you lose the cut
• Find a female that is great smoke but could use some structural improvements to make the growing process less work intensive
• Would like a male version of a female to use in making regular seed hybrids
• Find great qualities in two different lines and would like to explore a hybrid of your two favorite lines
• Love a cut but she doesn’t transfer well in crosses and would like to have her breed more true for specific traits

Understanding the purpose behind the project will give you a better idea about what breeding technique/method will be your best shot at getting the targeted results. For a rough outline of these techniques and how they influence male selection:

Backcrossing​

This is a process whereby the target plant is pollinated by successive progeny in order to reinforce the genetic contribution of the target female to resultant progeny. You would cross your female with a male, choose a male from the F1 generation to use to pollinate your original female (BX1). As a male is chosen from each new back-crossed generation and used to pollinate (or cross back to) the target female, the phenotype of the target female is further reinforced in subsequent progeny. Usually the process stops around BX#3 (cubing) as the resultant plants would have about 94% contribution from the target female. This is considered a good stopping point since the target female’s phenotype will theoretically be “locked down” in the progeny.

View attachment 85835​

Selecting males for a backcross (BX)​

There are 2 methods for selection when backcrossing and they are dictated by the process of identifying the male plants most like your target female later on. The first is to select a male that has as many similar qualities as the female plant. Since your purpose is to end up with plants that look like the female, using a male that already has many similarities will give you an advantage since you’ll be reinforcing many of your target traits. The downside to this method is that selecting which male to use for the next backcrossing that leans towards the female is very difficult since you are choosing between such similar looking plants. Knowing which male leans towards the female vs the male is difficult in this scenario.

An alternative is to choose a male that is as different as possible in all observable traits to do your initial F1 outcross. While this seems counterproductive, it makes selecting your next male easier since you’ll be able to quickly identify that male which leans most to the female.

Filial​

The “F” in F1,F2,…etc., stands for ‘filial’. This refers to generations after an initial crossing between parent plants (P1) resulting in the first filial generation (F1). Selected Males and females from the F1 generation are then crossed to give the second filial generation (F2). This type of breeding is used to “work a line” by reducing the range of possible traits within a gene pool to give a shorter range of trait expressions. The further into filial generations you go, generally, the more “stable” or consistent the pheno/geno-types become. This process gives you the ability to identify those plants in a line that are dominant for target traits and cross them to create truer breeding plants (more reliably pass along target traits as they become more dominant).

Selecting males for filial breeding​

Where backcrossing gave 2 clear procedures, filial is far less structured since the goal is not defined in the concept itself (BX goal is to solidify a known female plant, where filial breeding seeks to create an unrealized plant). Know what your ideal target plants will express. List those traits that are “must haves” in order of priority. This articulated checklist will give you the blueprint to not only the male selection but subsequent phenotypic selections for further work of the line. Think about the female plant that you’ve chosen and what qualities prompted you to want to use her for making new plants. Conversely, think about things you’d like to improve about this plant or see contributed to your final population of new plants.

That ideal plant you’ve mentally conceived and all the traits therein will be your guide in this process. Since we are limited to mostly traits in veg and a few in flower (assuming you put the male population through 12/12), we will be making choices based mostly on sight (as opposed to taste, smoke, post-cure smell, etc.) Generally, you want your male to compliment your female in some way.

This compliment can take the form of bringing a trait to the pairing in which the female is deficient. Perhaps your female’s stems are floppy under the weight of fat buds and you’d like to beef up her stem strength. In this case, you know that the sturdiest stems in your male population are gaining priority over the weaker stemmed phenos. Maybe this female’s petioles are very short and can restrict light penetration so you’d like to elongate these. Now you know that your male population with both sturdy stems and long petioles will provide your stud. But wait, there’s more! You love your female’s funky scent and don’t want to water it down, so you start using stem rubs to assess the funk of your strong stemmed, long petioled males. With these complimentary traits prioritized and your careful observation, the males are practically selecting themselves.

So you make your first filial generation (F1) and grow out this population to ready your next round of selections. Since you were aiming for long petioled, strong stemmed, funky smelling plants that gave you a solid representation of your P1 mother, selecting the female F1 plant to use for the F2 is relatively easy. Selecting the male F1 to use for pollinating her to make the F2 pretty much mirrors the process you used before. You can continue the filial generations until you are happy with the rate of female phenotypes expressing the long petioles+sturdiness+funk. This repeating process may take until F4+ before you are satisfied.

?Consider this: Are you breeding to have a better cut for your own purposes, or are you breeding to make a seed line that will spit out predictable phenos consistently? If you just want a cut for your own purposes, then you can stop the process the moment you see the first female that checks the boxes for the traits you want. There’s no reason to keep laboring with filial line work if you don’t need a seed line with reliable plants. ​

Preservation​

Preserving lines is a way to keep genetics “pure” and viable with periodic runs of fresh seed for future use. This means not introducing new genetics by hybridization. Preservation can take the form of open pollination or selective preservation. Open pollination refers to the use of all males and females freely pollinating in an attempt to keep the largest range of possibilities within a specific line; for good and bad. Selected preservation refers to preserving a line’s best qualities while “working out” the less desirable traits. Obviously, open pollination renders male selection moot as you are using them all, so I’ll touch on selective preservation.

Selecting males for preservation​

You may consider selective preservation when you are not able to provide venue for several male and females dropping pollen and ripening seeds or if you’d like to refine a strain while keeping the majority of traits pure. In the case of limited space, you are confronted with having to select a male for your preservation and must decide between what is most characteristic for the line vs. what is most convenient for its future use.

Let’s take Thai for example. This strain has great landrace sativa qualities but has a strong tendency to express intersex traits. If you are a die-hard purest, you may not mind using plants that express this trait as it is characteristic and most closely maintains the fidelity of what it means to be a Thai. In this case, you would pick the most stereotypical “Thai” male that embodies every conceivable trait associated with Thai (including the intersexing). While conversely, you enjoy everything about Thai EXCEPT for the intersex traits. Now you have a clear set of guidelines for your selection process. Tall, longer flowering, racy effect, and no intersex traits.

Compound Path​

Some projects can be the amalgam of reducible methods and can shift the approach in male selection. Multiple steps towards a single goal may be required and understanding how the changing method can influence a change in the criteria based on the above info will help out. For example, I want to make a true F1 hybrid of Afghan and Haze. I say “true F1” because this means, a first filial generation of two unrelated true breeding P1 stock. As opposed to what we now consider F1, a first filial generation of any two P1 regardless of genotype. I would have to work on my Afghan and Haze separately to get them in shape to be true breeding for the handful of traits I’d like to be dealing with in the eventual hybrid. I could use backcrossing to “cube” (BX3) each line before using filial breeding to make the F1 hybrid for further refinement. This means my project has now reduced to the steps:

BX Afghan

• using an Afghan male that has clear differences from female for the BX1 (1male)
• using similar males for the subsequent BX2 and BX3 (2males)

BX Haze

• using a Haze male that has clear differences from female for the BX1 (1male)
• using similar males for the subsequent BX2 and BX3 (2males)

Filial breed F1

• (Afghan x Haze) or (Haze x Afghan) (1male)

Filial breed F2

• (Afghan F1 x Haze F1) or (Haze F1 x Afghan F1) (1male)

Filial breed F3

• (Afghan F2 x Haze F2) or (Haze F2 x Afghan F2) (1male)

In this example, there were 9 male selections used to get to my final generation of plants. This task was broken into the different steps and their methods helped in the process of male selection. This entire endeavor culminated in a final product that would’ve seemed daunting at first.

Assessing Males: before & after ​

Choosing males before ever observing their progeny is a blind choice as you are making assumptions based on the observable traits. It will not be until you grow out his product that you will get a better idea about how those assumptions translate in pairings. Sometimes the plants express the qualities you expected, other times not so much. This discrepancy is an issue of genetic dominance that, even if you didn’t want to concern yourself with explicitly, will implicitly be understood by the frequency of its expression in the progeny.

This is best summarized with a thought from Mr. Soul (paraphrasing):

If you wanted to make women with large breasts, don’t look for a man with large breasts, look for a man whose daughters have large breasts because the proof is in the pudding. ​

General Observations about Males​

Males tend to auto flower easier than females in soil. It seems the slightest root binding will set off males to begin to throw pollen sacs in veg and can be a pain to get them to quit. If you plan on keeping a male in the library, consider setting him up in a hydro setup or be mindful of his pot size. This trait Is pretty ubiquitous with males but some will be able to handle themselves better than others.​

You can generalize about the yield of a male by the relative amount of pollen sacs.​

Phenotypes tend to “stick together” across sex. If you were to segregate phenos based on your basic observable structure traits in veg before sexual maturity, you’ll generally find that the similar phenos stay true to those similarities after they reveal sex. I’ll give an example to make this clearer: I grew out Appalachian Super Skunk and found the female pheno that I really enjoyed. Wanting a male ASS, I grew out more and looked for the male that most closely resembled the features of my female and found that his progeny spit out phenos very similar to the original female pheno. This means that you can grow out half of your total population of seeds to find the keeper female and know exactly what to look for in a male when you pop the other half of your seeds since she provides all the traits to select for assuming you wanted a male version of the female.​

This was an excellent read Schwaggy. Thanks for taking the time to put this together.

 

[Brokehoe]

I would have to agree. I had no idea what the f stood for.
Now have a lil better understanding of the filial generation meanings now. I still need to read it again for it to stick.
Intersex most definitely is a Thai trait. lol sorry

 

[JL2G]

View attachment 85833​

There isn’t much difficulty behind choosing a female for breeding projects, but males can be a bit of a mystery. Ultimately you want a pairing to produce stellar female plants but are shackled to a contributor that can show you no female traits. This blindness is what creates the dilemma in this process. I’d like to outline how I think about making a selection. This is not the only perspective or method but is a logical and fruitful guide that can help give a starting point.

The greatest prerequisite for making a male selection is having a clear idea about what you’d like to accomplish. The answer to the question, “What do you look for when picking a male,” is, “it depends.” When you know where you want to go, it’s easier to plan the route and know what to pack. Your clear idea of intent will affect the breeding technique employed and subsequently the criteria by which you will make your selection.

Knowing is half the battle. Have an idea about what your ideal target plants should express. List those traits that are “must haves” in order of priority. This articulated checklist will give you the blueprint to not only the male selection but subsequent phenotypic selections for further work of the line. Think about the female plant that you’ve chosen and what qualities prompted you to want to use her for making new plants. Conversely, think about things you’d like to improve about this plant or see contributed to your final population of new plants.

Different motivations can be driving this process and articulating or at least being aware of them will go a long way to making them a reality.

Possible Motivations:

• You love a particular female so much that you’d like to get her into seed form as closely as possible in case you lose the cut
• Find a female that is great smoke but could use some structural improvements to make the growing process less work intensive
• Would like a male version of a female to use in making regular seed hybrids
• Find great qualities in two different lines and would like to explore a hybrid of your two favorite lines
• Love a cut but she doesn’t transfer well in crosses and would like to have her breed more true for specific traits

Understanding the purpose behind the project will give you a better idea about what breeding technique/method will be your best shot at getting the targeted results. For a rough outline of these techniques and how they influence male selection:

Backcrossing​

This is a process whereby the target plant is pollinated by successive progeny in order to reinforce the genetic contribution of the target female to resultant progeny. You would cross your female with a male, choose a male from the F1 generation to use to pollinate your original female (BX1). As a male is chosen from each new back-crossed generation and used to pollinate (or cross back to) the target female, the phenotype of the target female is further reinforced in subsequent progeny. Usually the process stops around BX#3 (cubing) as the resultant plants would have about 94% contribution from the target female. This is considered a good stopping point since the target female’s phenotype will theoretically be “locked down” in the progeny.

View attachment 85835​

Selecting males for a backcross (BX)​

There are 2 methods for selection when backcrossing and they are dictated by the process of identifying the male plants most like your target female later on. The first is to select a male that has as many similar qualities as the female plant. Since your purpose is to end up with plants that look like the female, using a male that already has many similarities will give you an advantage since you’ll be reinforcing many of your target traits. The downside to this method is that selecting which male to use for the next backcrossing that leans towards the female is very difficult since you are choosing between such similar looking plants. Knowing which male leans towards the female vs the male is difficult in this scenario.

An alternative is to choose a male that is as different as possible in all observable traits to do your initial F1 outcross. While this seems counterproductive, it makes selecting your next male easier since you’ll be able to quickly identify that male which leans most to the female.

Filial​

The “F” in F1,F2,…etc., stands for ‘filial’. This refers to generations after an initial crossing between parent plants (P1) resulting in the first filial generation (F1). Selected Males and females from the F1 generation are then crossed to give the second filial generation (F2). This type of breeding is used to “work a line” by reducing the range of possible traits within a gene pool to give a shorter range of trait expressions. The further into filial generations you go, generally, the more “stable” or consistent the pheno/geno-types become. This process gives you the ability to identify those plants in a line that are dominant for target traits and cross them to create truer breeding plants (more reliably pass along target traits as they become more dominant).

Selecting males for filial breeding​

Where backcrossing gave 2 clear procedures, filial is far less structured since the goal is not defined in the concept itself (BX goal is to solidify a known female plant, where filial breeding seeks to create an unrealized plant). Know what your ideal target plants will express. List those traits that are “must haves” in order of priority. This articulated checklist will give you the blueprint to not only the male selection but subsequent phenotypic selections for further work of the line. Think about the female plant that you’ve chosen and what qualities prompted you to want to use her for making new plants. Conversely, think about things you’d like to improve about this plant or see contributed to your final population of new plants.

That ideal plant you’ve mentally conceived and all the traits therein will be your guide in this process. Since we are limited to mostly traits in veg and a few in flower (assuming you put the male population through 12/12), we will be making choices based mostly on sight (as opposed to taste, smoke, post-cure smell, etc.) Generally, you want your male to compliment your female in some way.

This compliment can take the form of bringing a trait to the pairing in which the female is deficient. Perhaps your female’s stems are floppy under the weight of fat buds and you’d like to beef up her stem strength. In this case, you know that the sturdiest stems in your male population are gaining priority over the weaker stemmed phenos. Maybe this female’s petioles are very short and can restrict light penetration so you’d like to elongate these. Now you know that your male population with both sturdy stems and long petioles will provide your stud. But wait, there’s more! You love your female’s funky scent and don’t want to water it down, so you start using stem rubs to assess the funk of your strong stemmed, long petioled males. With these complimentary traits prioritized and your careful observation, the males are practically selecting themselves.

So you make your first filial generation (F1) and grow out this population to ready your next round of selections. Since you were aiming for long petioled, strong stemmed, funky smelling plants that gave you a solid representation of your P1 mother, selecting the female F1 plant to use for the F2 is relatively easy. Selecting the male F1 to use for pollinating her to make the F2 pretty much mirrors the process you used before. You can continue the filial generations until you are happy with the rate of female phenotypes expressing the long petioles+sturdiness+funk. This repeating process may take until F4+ before you are satisfied.

?Consider this: Are you breeding to have a better cut for your own purposes, or are you breeding to make a seed line that will spit out predictable phenos consistently? If you just want a cut for your own purposes, then you can stop the process the moment you see the first female that checks the boxes for the traits you want. There’s no reason to keep laboring with filial line work if you don’t need a seed line with reliable plants. ​

Preservation​

Preserving lines is a way to keep genetics “pure” and viable with periodic runs of fresh seed for future use. This means not introducing new genetics by hybridization. Preservation can take the form of open pollination or selective preservation. Open pollination refers to the use of all males and females freely pollinating in an attempt to keep the largest range of possibilities within a specific line; for good and bad. Selected preservation refers to preserving a line’s best qualities while “working out” the less desirable traits. Obviously, open pollination renders male selection moot as you are using them all, so I’ll touch on selective preservation.

Selecting males for preservation​

You may consider selective preservation when you are not able to provide venue for several male and females dropping pollen and ripening seeds or if you’d like to refine a strain while keeping the majority of traits pure. In the case of limited space, you are confronted with having to select a male for your preservation and must decide between what is most characteristic for the line vs. what is most convenient for its future use.

Let’s take Thai for example. This strain has great landrace sativa qualities but has a strong tendency to express intersex traits. If you are a die-hard purest, you may not mind using plants that express this trait as it is characteristic and most closely maintains the fidelity of what it means to be a Thai. In this case, you would pick the most stereotypical “Thai” male that embodies every conceivable trait associated with Thai (including the intersexing). While conversely, you enjoy everything about Thai EXCEPT for the intersex traits. Now you have a clear set of guidelines for your selection process. Tall, longer flowering, racy effect, and no intersex traits.

Compound Path​

Some projects can be the amalgam of reducible methods and can shift the approach in male selection. Multiple steps towards a single goal may be required and understanding how the changing method can influence a change in the criteria based on the above info will help out. For example, I want to make a true F1 hybrid of Afghan and Haze. I say “true F1” because this means, a first filial generation of two unrelated true breeding P1 stock. As opposed to what we now consider F1, a first filial generation of any two P1 regardless of genotype. I would have to work on my Afghan and Haze separately to get them in shape to be true breeding for the handful of traits I’d like to be dealing with in the eventual hybrid. I could use backcrossing to “cube” (BX3) each line before using filial breeding to make the F1 hybrid for further refinement. This means my project has now reduced to the steps:

BX Afghan

• using an Afghan male that has clear differences from female for the BX1 (1male)
• using similar males for the subsequent BX2 and BX3 (2males)

BX Haze

• using a Haze male that has clear differences from female for the BX1 (1male)
• using similar males for the subsequent BX2 and BX3 (2males)

Filial breed F1

• (Afghan x Haze) or (Haze x Afghan) (1male)

Filial breed F2

• (Afghan F1 x Haze F1) or (Haze F1 x Afghan F1) (1male)

Filial breed F3

• (Afghan F2 x Haze F2) or (Haze F2 x Afghan F2) (1male)

In this example, there were 9 male selections used to get to my final generation of plants. This task was broken into the different steps and their methods helped in the process of male selection. This entire endeavor culminated in a final product that would’ve seemed daunting at first.

Assessing Males: before & after ​

Choosing males before ever observing their progeny is a blind choice as you are making assumptions based on the observable traits. It will not be until you grow out his product that you will get a better idea about how those assumptions translate in pairings. Sometimes the plants express the qualities you expected, other times not so much. This discrepancy is an issue of genetic dominance that, even if you didn’t want to concern yourself with explicitly, will implicitly be understood by the frequency of its expression in the progeny.

This is best summarized with a thought from Mr. Soul (paraphrasing):

If you wanted to make women with large breasts, don’t look for a man with large breasts, look for a man whose daughters have large breasts because the proof is in the pudding. ​

General Observations about Males​

Males tend to auto flower easier than females in soil. It seems the slightest root binding will set off males to begin to throw pollen sacs in veg and can be a pain to get them to quit. If you plan on keeping a male in the library, consider setting him up in a hydro setup or be mindful of his pot size. This trait Is pretty ubiquitous with males but some will be able to handle themselves better than others.​

You can generalize about the yield of a male by the relative amount of pollen sacs.​

Phenotypes tend to “stick together” across sex. If you were to segregate phenos based on your basic observable structure traits in veg before sexual maturity, you’ll generally find that the similar phenos stay true to those similarities after they reveal sex. I’ll give an example to make this clearer: I grew out Appalachian Super Skunk and found the female pheno that I really enjoyed. Wanting a male ASS, I grew out more and looked for the male that most closely resembled the features of my female and found that his progeny spit out phenos very similar to the original female pheno. This means that you can grow out half of your total population of seeds to find the keeper female and know exactly what to look for in a male when you pop the other half of your seeds since she provides all the traits to select for assuming you wanted a male version of the female.​

I love it, such detailed info in there. Thanks so much for posting that. Friggin Awesomesauce!

 

[Frimpong]

View attachment 85833​

There isn’t much difficulty behind choosing a female for breeding projects, but males can be a bit of a mystery. Ultimately you want a pairing to produce stellar female plants but are shackled to a contributor that can show you no female traits. This blindness is what creates the dilemma in this process. I’d like to outline how I think about making a selection. This is not the only perspective or method but is a logical and fruitful guide that can help give a starting point.

The greatest prerequisite for making a male selection is having a clear idea about what you’d like to accomplish. The answer to the question, “What do you look for when picking a male,” is, “it depends.” When you know where you want to go, it’s easier to plan the route and know what to pack. Your clear idea of intent will affect the breeding technique employed and subsequently the criteria by which you will make your selection.

Knowing is half the battle. Have an idea about what your ideal target plants should express. List those traits that are “must haves” in order of priority. This articulated checklist will give you the blueprint to not only the male selection but subsequent phenotypic selections for further work of the line. Think about the female plant that you’ve chosen and what qualities prompted you to want to use her for making new plants. Conversely, think about things you’d like to improve about this plant or see contributed to your final population of new plants.

Different motivations can be driving this process and articulating or at least being aware of them will go a long way to making them a reality.

Possible Motivations:

• You love a particular female so much that you’d like to get her into seed form as closely as possible in case you lose the cut
• Find a female that is great smoke but could use some structural improvements to make the growing process less work intensive
• Would like a male version of a female to use in making regular seed hybrids
• Find great qualities in two different lines and would like to explore a hybrid of your two favorite lines
• Love a cut but she doesn’t transfer well in crosses and would like to have her breed more true for specific traits

Understanding the purpose behind the project will give you a better idea about what breeding technique/method will be your best shot at getting the targeted results. For a rough outline of these techniques and how they influence male selection:

Backcrossing​

This is a process whereby the target plant is pollinated by successive progeny in order to reinforce the genetic contribution of the target female to resultant progeny. You would cross your female with a male, choose a male from the F1 generation to use to pollinate your original female (BX1). As a male is chosen from each new back-crossed generation and used to pollinate (or cross back to) the target female, the phenotype of the target female is further reinforced in subsequent progeny. Usually the process stops around BX#3 (cubing) as the resultant plants would have about 94% contribution from the target female. This is considered a good stopping point since the target female’s phenotype will theoretically be “locked down” in the progeny.

View attachment 85835​

Selecting males for a backcross (BX)​

There are 2 methods for selection when backcrossing and they are dictated by the process of identifying the male plants most like your target female later on. The first is to select a male that has as many similar qualities as the female plant. Since your purpose is to end up with plants that look like the female, using a male that already has many similarities will give you an advantage since you’ll be reinforcing many of your target traits. The downside to this method is that selecting which male to use for the next backcrossing that leans towards the female is very difficult since you are choosing between such similar looking plants. Knowing which male leans towards the female vs the male is difficult in this scenario.

An alternative is to choose a male that is as different as possible in all observable traits to do your initial F1 outcross. While this seems counterproductive, it makes selecting your next male easier since you’ll be able to quickly identify that male which leans most to the female.

Filial​

The “F” in F1,F2,…etc., stands for ‘filial’. This refers to generations after an initial crossing between parent plants (P1) resulting in the first filial generation (F1). Selected Males and females from the F1 generation are then crossed to give the second filial generation (F2). This type of breeding is used to “work a line” by reducing the range of possible traits within a gene pool to give a shorter range of trait expressions. The further into filial generations you go, generally, the more “stable” or consistent the pheno/geno-types become. This process gives you the ability to identify those plants in a line that are dominant for target traits and cross them to create truer breeding plants (more reliably pass along target traits as they become more dominant).

Selecting males for filial breeding​

Where backcrossing gave 2 clear procedures, filial is far less structured since the goal is not defined in the concept itself (BX goal is to solidify a known female plant, where filial breeding seeks to create an unrealized plant). Know what your ideal target plants will express. List those traits that are “must haves” in order of priority. This articulated checklist will give you the blueprint to not only the male selection but subsequent phenotypic selections for further work of the line. Think about the female plant that you’ve chosen and what qualities prompted you to want to use her for making new plants. Conversely, think about things you’d like to improve about this plant or see contributed to your final population of new plants.

That ideal plant you’ve mentally conceived and all the traits therein will be your guide in this process. Since we are limited to mostly traits in veg and a few in flower (assuming you put the male population through 12/12), we will be making choices based mostly on sight (as opposed to taste, smoke, post-cure smell, etc.) Generally, you want your male to compliment your female in some way.

This compliment can take the form of bringing a trait to the pairing in which the female is deficient. Perhaps your female’s stems are floppy under the weight of fat buds and you’d like to beef up her stem strength. In this case, you know that the sturdiest stems in your male population are gaining priority over the weaker stemmed phenos. Maybe this female’s petioles are very short and can restrict light penetration so you’d like to elongate these. Now you know that your male population with both sturdy stems and long petioles will provide your stud. But wait, there’s more! You love your female’s funky scent and don’t want to water it down, so you start using stem rubs to assess the funk of your strong stemmed, long petioled males. With these complimentary traits prioritized and your careful observation, the males are practically selecting themselves.

So you make your first filial generation (F1) and grow out this population to ready your next round of selections. Since you were aiming for long petioled, strong stemmed, funky smelling plants that gave you a solid representation of your P1 mother, selecting the female F1 plant to use for the F2 is relatively easy. Selecting the male F1 to use for pollinating her to make the F2 pretty much mirrors the process you used before. You can continue the filial generations until you are happy with the rate of female phenotypes expressing the long petioles+sturdiness+funk. This repeating process may take until F4+ before you are satisfied.

?Consider this: Are you breeding to have a better cut for your own purposes, or are you breeding to make a seed line that will spit out predictable phenos consistently? If you just want a cut for your own purposes, then you can stop the process the moment you see the first female that checks the boxes for the traits you want. There’s no reason to keep laboring with filial line work if you don’t need a seed line with reliable plants. ​

Preservation​

Preserving lines is a way to keep genetics “pure” and viable with periodic runs of fresh seed for future use. This means not introducing new genetics by hybridization. Preservation can take the form of open pollination or selective preservation. Open pollination refers to the use of all males and females freely pollinating in an attempt to keep the largest range of possibilities within a specific line; for good and bad. Selected preservation refers to preserving a line’s best qualities while “working out” the less desirable traits. Obviously, open pollination renders male selection moot as you are using them all, so I’ll touch on selective preservation.

Selecting males for preservation​

You may consider selective preservation when you are not able to provide venue for several male and females dropping pollen and ripening seeds or if you’d like to refine a strain while keeping the majority of traits pure. In the case of limited space, you are confronted with having to select a male for your preservation and must decide between what is most characteristic for the line vs. what is most convenient for its future use.

Let’s take Thai for example. This strain has great landrace sativa qualities but has a strong tendency to express intersex traits. If you are a die-hard purest, you may not mind using plants that express this trait as it is characteristic and most closely maintains the fidelity of what it means to be a Thai. In this case, you would pick the most stereotypical “Thai” male that embodies every conceivable trait associated with Thai (including the intersexing). While conversely, you enjoy everything about Thai EXCEPT for the intersex traits. Now you have a clear set of guidelines for your selection process. Tall, longer flowering, racy effect, and no intersex traits.

Compound Path​

Some projects can be the amalgam of reducible methods and can shift the approach in male selection. Multiple steps towards a single goal may be required and understanding how the changing method can influence a change in the criteria based on the above info will help out. For example, I want to make a true F1 hybrid of Afghan and Haze. I say “true F1” because this means, a first filial generation of two unrelated true breeding P1 stock. As opposed to what we now consider F1, a first filial generation of any two P1 regardless of genotype. I would have to work on my Afghan and Haze separately to get them in shape to be true breeding for the handful of traits I’d like to be dealing with in the eventual hybrid. I could use backcrossing to “cube” (BX3) each line before using filial breeding to make the F1 hybrid for further refinement. This means my project has now reduced to the steps:

BX Afghan

• using an Afghan male that has clear differences from female for the BX1 (1male)
• using similar males for the subsequent BX2 and BX3 (2males)

BX Haze

• using a Haze male that has clear differences from female for the BX1 (1male)
• using similar males for the subsequent BX2 and BX3 (2males)

Filial breed F1

• (Afghan x Haze) or (Haze x Afghan) (1male)

Filial breed F2

• (Afghan F1 x Haze F1) or (Haze F1 x Afghan F1) (1male)

Filial breed F3

• (Afghan F2 x Haze F2) or (Haze F2 x Afghan F2) (1male)

In this example, there were 9 male selections used to get to my final generation of plants. This task was broken into the different steps and their methods helped in the process of male selection. This entire endeavor culminated in a final product that would’ve seemed daunting at first.

Assessing Males: before & after ​

Choosing males before ever observing their progeny is a blind choice as you are making assumptions based on the observable traits. It will not be until you grow out his product that you will get a better idea about how those assumptions translate in pairings. Sometimes the plants express the qualities you expected, other times not so much. This discrepancy is an issue of genetic dominance that, even if you didn’t want to concern yourself with explicitly, will implicitly be understood by the frequency of its expression in the progeny.

This is best summarized with a thought from Mr. Soul (paraphrasing):

If you wanted to make women with large breasts, don’t look for a man with large breasts, look for a man whose daughters have large breasts because the proof is in the pudding. ​

General Observations about Males​

Males tend to auto flower easier than females in soil. It seems the slightest root binding will set off males to begin to throw pollen sacs in veg and can be a pain to get them to quit. If you plan on keeping a male in the library, consider setting him up in a hydro setup or be mindful of his pot size. This trait Is pretty ubiquitous with males but some will be able to handle themselves better than others.​

You can generalize about the yield of a male by the relative amount of pollen sacs.​

Phenotypes tend to “stick together” across sex. If you were to segregate phenos based on your basic observable structure traits in veg before sexual maturity, you’ll generally find that the similar phenos stay true to those similarities after they reveal sex. I’ll give an example to make this clearer: I grew out Appalachian Super Skunk and found the female pheno that I really enjoyed. Wanting a male ASS, I grew out more and looked for the male that most closely resembled the features of my female and found that his progeny spit out phenos very similar to the original female pheno. This means that you can grow out half of your total population of seeds to find the keeper female and know exactly what to look for in a male when you pop the other half of your seeds since she provides all the traits to select for assuming you wanted a male version of the female.​

Ahhhh u have been missed @Schwaggy P ????

 

[Willie]

pretty excellent read.......the BX part of particular interest to me

 

[Schwaggy P]

'80s Black Afghan + (NL#2 x '88G13HP) ~30days
(There's a blurple light overhead)


'80s Black Afghan


(NL2 x 88G13HP)

​

 

[HydroRed]

View attachment 85833​

There isn’t much difficulty behind choosing a female for breeding projects, but males can be a bit of a mystery. Ultimately you want a pairing to produce stellar female plants but are shackled to a contributor that can show you no female traits. This blindness is what creates the dilemma in this process. I’d like to outline how I think about making a selection. This is not the only perspective or method but is a logical and fruitful guide that can help give a starting point.

The greatest prerequisite for making a male selection is having a clear idea about what you’d like to accomplish. The answer to the question, “What do you look for when picking a male,” is, “it depends.” When you know where you want to go, it’s easier to plan the route and know what to pack. Your clear idea of intent will affect the breeding technique employed and subsequently the criteria by which you will make your selection.

Knowing is half the battle. Have an idea about what your ideal target plants should express. List those traits that are “must haves” in order of priority. This articulated checklist will give you the blueprint to not only the male selection but subsequent phenotypic selections for further work of the line. Think about the female plant that you’ve chosen and what qualities prompted you to want to use her for making new plants. Conversely, think about things you’d like to improve about this plant or see contributed to your final population of new plants.

Different motivations can be driving this process and articulating or at least being aware of them will go a long way to making them a reality.

Possible Motivations:

• You love a particular female so much that you’d like to get her into seed form as closely as possible in case you lose the cut
• Find a female that is great smoke but could use some structural improvements to make the growing process less work intensive
• Would like a male version of a female to use in making regular seed hybrids
• Find great qualities in two different lines and would like to explore a hybrid of your two favorite lines
• Love a cut but she doesn’t transfer well in crosses and would like to have her breed more true for specific traits

Understanding the purpose behind the project will give you a better idea about what breeding technique/method will be your best shot at getting the targeted results. For a rough outline of these techniques and how they influence male selection:

Backcrossing​

This is a process whereby the target plant is pollinated by successive progeny in order to reinforce the genetic contribution of the target female to resultant progeny. You would cross your female with a male, choose a male from the F1 generation to use to pollinate your original female (BX1). As a male is chosen from each new back-crossed generation and used to pollinate (or cross back to) the target female, the phenotype of the target female is further reinforced in subsequent progeny. Usually the process stops around BX#3 (cubing) as the resultant plants would have about 94% contribution from the target female. This is considered a good stopping point since the target female’s phenotype will theoretically be “locked down” in the progeny.

View attachment 85835​

Selecting males for a backcross (BX)​

There are 2 methods for selection when backcrossing and they are dictated by the process of identifying the male plants most like your target female later on. The first is to select a male that has as many similar qualities as the female plant. Since your purpose is to end up with plants that look like the female, using a male that already has many similarities will give you an advantage since you’ll be reinforcing many of your target traits. The downside to this method is that selecting which male to use for the next backcrossing that leans towards the female is very difficult since you are choosing between such similar looking plants. Knowing which male leans towards the female vs the male is difficult in this scenario.

An alternative is to choose a male that is as different as possible in all observable traits to do your initial F1 outcross. While this seems counterproductive, it makes selecting your next male easier since you’ll be able to quickly identify that male which leans most to the female.

Filial​

The “F” in F1,F2,…etc., stands for ‘filial’. This refers to generations after an initial crossing between parent plants (P1) resulting in the first filial generation (F1). Selected Males and females from the F1 generation are then crossed to give the second filial generation (F2). This type of breeding is used to “work a line” by reducing the range of possible traits within a gene pool to give a shorter range of trait expressions. The further into filial generations you go, generally, the more “stable” or consistent the pheno/geno-types become. This process gives you the ability to identify those plants in a line that are dominant for target traits and cross them to create truer breeding plants (more reliably pass along target traits as they become more dominant).

Selecting males for filial breeding​

Where backcrossing gave 2 clear procedures, filial is far less structured since the goal is not defined in the concept itself (BX goal is to solidify a known female plant, where filial breeding seeks to create an unrealized plant). Know what your ideal target plants will express. List those traits that are “must haves” in order of priority. This articulated checklist will give you the blueprint to not only the male selection but subsequent phenotypic selections for further work of the line. Think about the female plant that you’ve chosen and what qualities prompted you to want to use her for making new plants. Conversely, think about things you’d like to improve about this plant or see contributed to your final population of new plants.

That ideal plant you’ve mentally conceived and all the traits therein will be your guide in this process. Since we are limited to mostly traits in veg and a few in flower (assuming you put the male population through 12/12), we will be making choices based mostly on sight (as opposed to taste, smoke, post-cure smell, etc.) Generally, you want your male to compliment your female in some way.

This compliment can take the form of bringing a trait to the pairing in which the female is deficient. Perhaps your female’s stems are floppy under the weight of fat buds and you’d like to beef up her stem strength. In this case, you know that the sturdiest stems in your male population are gaining priority over the weaker stemmed phenos. Maybe this female’s petioles are very short and can restrict light penetration so you’d like to elongate these. Now you know that your male population with both sturdy stems and long petioles will provide your stud. But wait, there’s more! You love your female’s funky scent and don’t want to water it down, so you start using stem rubs to assess the funk of your strong stemmed, long petioled males. With these complimentary traits prioritized and your careful observation, the males are practically selecting themselves.

So you make your first filial generation (F1) and grow out this population to ready your next round of selections. Since you were aiming for long petioled, strong stemmed, funky smelling plants that gave you a solid representation of your P1 mother, selecting the female F1 plant to use for the F2 is relatively easy. Selecting the male F1 to use for pollinating her to make the F2 pretty much mirrors the process you used before. You can continue the filial generations until you are happy with the rate of female phenotypes expressing the long petioles+sturdiness+funk. This repeating process may take until F4+ before you are satisfied.

?Consider this: Are you breeding to have a better cut for your own purposes, or are you breeding to make a seed line that will spit out predictable phenos consistently? If you just want a cut for your own purposes, then you can stop the process the moment you see the first female that checks the boxes for the traits you want. There’s no reason to keep laboring with filial line work if you don’t need a seed line with reliable plants. ​

Preservation​

Preserving lines is a way to keep genetics “pure” and viable with periodic runs of fresh seed for future use. This means not introducing new genetics by hybridization. Preservation can take the form of open pollination or selective preservation. Open pollination refers to the use of all males and females freely pollinating in an attempt to keep the largest range of possibilities within a specific line; for good and bad. Selected preservation refers to preserving a line’s best qualities while “working out” the less desirable traits. Obviously, open pollination renders male selection moot as you are using them all, so I’ll touch on selective preservation.

Selecting males for preservation​

You may consider selective preservation when you are not able to provide venue for several male and females dropping pollen and ripening seeds or if you’d like to refine a strain while keeping the majority of traits pure. In the case of limited space, you are confronted with having to select a male for your preservation and must decide between what is most characteristic for the line vs. what is most convenient for its future use.

Let’s take Thai for example. This strain has great landrace sativa qualities but has a strong tendency to express intersex traits. If you are a die-hard purest, you may not mind using plants that express this trait as it is characteristic and most closely maintains the fidelity of what it means to be a Thai. In this case, you would pick the most stereotypical “Thai” male that embodies every conceivable trait associated with Thai (including the intersexing). While conversely, you enjoy everything about Thai EXCEPT for the intersex traits. Now you have a clear set of guidelines for your selection process. Tall, longer flowering, racy effect, and no intersex traits.

Compound Path​

Some projects can be the amalgam of reducible methods and can shift the approach in male selection. Multiple steps towards a single goal may be required and understanding how the changing method can influence a change in the criteria based on the above info will help out. For example, I want to make a true F1 hybrid of Afghan and Haze. I say “true F1” because this means, a first filial generation of two unrelated true breeding P1 stock. As opposed to what we now consider F1, a first filial generation of any two P1 regardless of genotype. I would have to work on my Afghan and Haze separately to get them in shape to be true breeding for the handful of traits I’d like to be dealing with in the eventual hybrid. I could use backcrossing to “cube” (BX3) each line before using filial breeding to make the F1 hybrid for further refinement. This means my project has now reduced to the steps:

BX Afghan

• using an Afghan male that has clear differences from female for the BX1 (1male)
• using similar males for the subsequent BX2 and BX3 (2males)

BX Haze

• using a Haze male that has clear differences from female for the BX1 (1male)
• using similar males for the subsequent BX2 and BX3 (2males)

Filial breed F1

• (Afghan x Haze) or (Haze x Afghan) (1male)

Filial breed F2

• (Afghan F1 x Haze F1) or (Haze F1 x Afghan F1) (1male)

Filial breed F3

• (Afghan F2 x Haze F2) or (Haze F2 x Afghan F2) (1male)

In this example, there were 9 male selections used to get to my final generation of plants. This task was broken into the different steps and their methods helped in the process of male selection. This entire endeavor culminated in a final product that would’ve seemed daunting at first.

Assessing Males: before & after ​

Choosing males before ever observing their progeny is a blind choice as you are making assumptions based on the observable traits. It will not be until you grow out his product that you will get a better idea about how those assumptions translate in pairings. Sometimes the plants express the qualities you expected, other times not so much. This discrepancy is an issue of genetic dominance that, even if you didn’t want to concern yourself with explicitly, will implicitly be understood by the frequency of its expression in the progeny.

This is best summarized with a thought from Mr. Soul (paraphrasing):

If you wanted to make women with large breasts, don’t look for a man with large breasts, look for a man whose daughters have large breasts because the proof is in the pudding. ​

General Observations about Males​

Males tend to auto flower easier than females in soil. It seems the slightest root binding will set off males to begin to throw pollen sacs in veg and can be a pain to get them to quit. If you plan on keeping a male in the library, consider setting him up in a hydro setup or be mindful of his pot size. This trait Is pretty ubiquitous with males but some will be able to handle themselves better than others.​

You can generalize about the yield of a male by the relative amount of pollen sacs.​

Phenotypes tend to “stick together” across sex. If you were to segregate phenos based on your basic observable structure traits in veg before sexual maturity, you’ll generally find that the similar phenos stay true to those similarities after they reveal sex. I’ll give an example to make this clearer: I grew out Appalachian Super Skunk and found the female pheno that I really enjoyed. Wanting a male ASS, I grew out more and looked for the male that most closely resembled the features of my female and found that his progeny spit out phenos very similar to the original female pheno. This means that you can grow out half of your total population of seeds to find the keeper female and know exactly what to look for in a male when you pop the other half of your seeds since she provides all the traits to select for assuming you wanted a male version of the female.​

Lots of knowledge being given away in this post!

 

[thenotsoesoteric]

Ahhhh u have been missed @Schwaggy P ????

I mentally always think of Schwaggy as "The Prof" He breaks shit down so well.

 

[JL2G]

I mentally always think of Schwaggy as "The Prof" He breaks shit down so well.

Yep, he sure as heck does. Like when you read a book you get a mental picture of someone, well to me he's usually wearing a lab coat with a pocket protector full of doobage.
My biggest leaps in growing/chucking skills came from reading his journaling, and personal advice he's given me.

 

[DesertedSky]

View attachment 84932​

Peruse any seed bank catalogue and it won’t take too long before your eyes begin to glaze over in the sea of possibility. So many different strains that one can easily become overwhelmed with options. Take for instance this cart:

Sensi Super Skunk
Nirvana Big Bud
HSO Green Crack
Aficionado Critical Mass
Mr. Nice Nordle​

This seems like a diverse group of strains that could have endless phenotypic possibilities requiring much effort to parse through growing. But, let’s look at the list a different way:

Sensi Super Skunk (Skunk#1 x Afghan)
Nirvana Big Bud (Afghan x Skunk#1)
HSO Green Crack (Skunk#1 x Afghan)
Aficionado Critical Mass (Afghan x Skunk#1)
Mr. Nice Nordle (Afghan x Skunk#1)​

See it? They’re all Afghan Skunk. Now, I’m not saying that they are all the same seed stock, same P1 selection, or will all give you the same results. The point is to take a large bit of seemingly unrelated information and reducing it to its essence. If you’ve grown out a few Afghan Skunks, you’ll have a rough idea of what to expect: Medium frame, Sweet-to-funky smell, solid yield, short-medium flower time, etc. . What was once a sea of possibility has now been reduced to variations on a theme. There is nuance to this that I’ll get into later but I want to just build the concept first.

The need to reduce strains to their base genetics seems to be more necessary as time goes on because names are becoming more abstract and constantly augmenting an already massive list. Strains mostly enjoy a naming scheme that clearly express the parental genetics involved. G13 Haze, Blueberry Skunk, and Purple OG leave you with little ambiguity as to what was involved or what to expect.

Even the names that break from this convention into non-genetic based monikers such as Girl Scout Cookies, Early Pearl, and Humboldt Snow hint at some observable characteristic to expect. A grower can at least look forward to cookies smell/taste, quick flowering, or a frosty plant based on these names. The more abstract names that have little to no relation to an observable trait of cannabis can leave one confused. My purpose is not to dismiss or say these are 'incorrect', the point is how to find the signal in the noise of the names when simply read as is. For example: Cougar Milk, Pillow book, and Garfunkle do not give much of a hint as to the involved parental genetics or any observable trait. Looking into Garfunkle, you see it is (Dumpster x 88G13HP) and can now expect Afghan type traits. If you were looking for a nice sedating influence, this strain now is applicable to your project where before it was an abstract unknown.

Here are two strains that by their name give little clue as to what is happening genetically (again, not a knock) but similarities become apparent when reduced to their genetic base.

Madness (Hazeman) - (Bubba Kush x 88G13HP)?Afghan
Deep Line Alchemy #9 (Bodhi) - (Kush 4 x 88G13HP)? Afghan

I find analyzing strains with this genetic reductionism to help conceptualize what I’m getting into when growing out different strains or planning a project. I like to think of genetics from the perspective of a handful of base lines that provide the ingredients to all of the work available. I think of the base lines as Afghan, Haze, Skunk, OG, & Chem. To me, these each evoke a clear morphology all their own and each serves as a great collective of expectations when encountering them. To reiterate, this is my personal list that is effected by that which I mostly deal with; your list may differ and that’s great. The point is to devise a method of analyzing seemingly different and chaotic genetics that is useful for you.

For example, I can understand if someone included Cookies to the list of base genes as it quickly conjures a morphology and trait spectrum of its own. Although one could further reduce cookies to an OG variant, the fact that it is as ubiquitous in modern work validates this category as a method of quick reference when conceptualizing what such strains brings to the table. Similar criticism could be leveled at my use of Chem as a base strain as it could be further reduced to Afghan variants but as my personal endeavors heavily use this offshoot, it is applicable. It is more helpful for me to think of Chem as a base ingredient as so much work is based on this specific line. Again, the point to all this is to give yourself a shorthand way of quickly analyzing many different strains in a manner that is easily conceptualized and greatly helps in the planning of project pairings later on.

Now, you maybe thinking, “But that’s so generic! Afghan doesn’t include Pakis or Indian lines. Where is the room for nuance?” First off, for every Paki or Indian line, there are 20 Afghani lines. This process has to be practical for you. Nuance comes with deeper analysis after the superficial parsing of information. Once you’ve decided you want to find a solid Kush, you can further broaden your analysis to include the nuanced similar strains that can give you specifics you’re looking for.

Suppose I offer to take you to breakfast at a new restaurant. I’ve already been to this place before and keep raving about their biscuits and gravy (BnG). You like BnG so decide it’s what you’ll order. At this point, you only have a rough estimation of what will ultimately be presented to you when served; some type of savory baked good with some kind of fat-based sauce. Although you’re sold on the BnG, you decide to look at the menu description of the dish.

“2 flaky buttermilk biscuits served with a sausage country gravy”​

Now you have a better idea of what you’re in for. It will not be until to take a bite that you get the nuance of how it was seasoned, the spiciness of the sausage used, the flakiness of the biscuits, etc.

Now, next week I tell you I’m taking you to a different restaurant to try the Goobagoo. You’re at a loss?‍♂️. You’ve never heard this word before and have no earthly idea what the hell that is. You get the restaurant and open the menu to read

“2 crumbly cream biscuits served with thickened chorizo au jus”​

It hits you, Goobagoo is just a variation on biscuits and gravy. The biscuits are a little different texture, the sausage is a bit spicier, and the gravy is darker and a bit thinner, but it’s just BnG. The differences between the two dishes is within a range of possibility. You aren’t ordering BnG and getting served a pasta dish.

This same concept was at play at the beginning when I named

Sensi Super Skunk
Nirvana Big Bud
HSO Green Crack
Aficionado Critical Mass
Mr. Nice Nordle​

They, like the Goobagoo, seemed like a spectrum of wide possibility, but upon reading the menu, you realize they’re all Afghan Skunk. Sure, there will be variations in the “spiciness, texture, portion, and flavor balance” (potency, density, yield, and smell/taste) but the point is to give a quick analysis for what you’re about to “eat”.

I’ve found this practice to help make sense of seemingly unrelated genetics and help with planning out project pairings. After awhile it became a default method to analyze seed drops and seed bank menus. It's a mental lineage chart breakdown that gets to the essence of it. Just as assessing phenotypes, you aren’t necessarily systematically going through an exhaustive checklist of traits to make conclusions, you kind of implicitly make the assessment. I’ll expand on this concept in a later post, “Planned Purposeful Pairings”.

This was an absolutely fantastic read and wonderful metaphor! Will most certainly shift the way that I look at things in the future.