To feminize or not to feminize?

[UrbanHillbilly]

What are the downsides of feminized seeds? In particular, I'd like to have the option of cloning some plants (we own a nice Clone King aero cloner). Would plants grown from fem'd seeds have any problems, especially if you keep them going multiple generations?

 

[Cannaman]

I've honestly never noticed a difference between cloning my keepers fems or regs. I've got a few keepers from each that I've ran multiple times. As for cloning, some clone less easily than others but in my experience that's all strain dependant. Hope that helps.

 

[Buckeyetoker]

What are the downsides of feminized seeds? In particular, I'd like to have the option of cloning some plants (we own a nice Clone King aero cloner). Would plants grown from fem'd seeds have any problems, especially if you keep them going multiple generations?

Are you asking wether its worth your time to make feminize seeds or just to buy and grow them to clone?

 

[HydroRed]

What are the downsides of feminized seeds? In particular, I'd like to have the option of cloning some plants (we own a nice Clone King aero cloner). Would plants grown from fem'd seeds have any problems, especially if you keep them going multiple generations?

I dont find any downsides in performance, quality, etc from regular females VS feminized females. In an attempt to keeping this very short in explaination -there will be no discernible difference between a rooted feminized cut and a regular female cut aside from the genetics of the momma that cuts were taken from, certainly in terms of keeping them going for multiple generations. Feminized or not, the genetics and traits will be passed on by the original breeding of said female moving forward.

 

[whiteravenseeds]

What are the downsides of feminized seeds? In particular, I'd like to have the option of cloning some plants (we own a nice Clone King aero cloner). Would plants grown from fem'd seeds have any problems, especially if you keep them going multiple generations?

I have definitely noticed, depending on genetics and most likely other variables, that some modern release fem seeds take longer to veg in my experience, in particular certain varieties and S1s of those varieties.

past that, havent noticed much difference in general, at least pertaining to end result. i have antique fems and regs running from seed side by side rn, which are keeping pace with each other very nicely.

provided your clone sop is solid, there shouldnt be any real difference in real world growing, to go along with red it would be down to the genetics of the mother plants involved.

 

[Buckeyetoker]

What are the downsides of feminized seeds? In particular, I'd like to have the option of cloning some plants (we own a nice Clone King aero cloner). Would plants grown from fem'd seeds have any problems, especially if you keep them going multiple generations?

@HydroRed is a pro...he'll lead in you the right direction!

 

[Bullfrog]

I've been thinking about this question also. Before I get into my reasoning, I'm going to say I think regular seeds made with a male and female are more vigorous than plants made with female pollen.

In an indoor garden I don't think you'll ever notice much of a difference no matter what you're trying to do with the plant. Even outdoors if they're cared for well, I don't think you'll notice much difference. But plants let to their own devices, the regulars seem to do much better.

My experience this summer was kinda unique to me because I pretty much just let a good portion in the care of ma nature. Wasn't my plan to start but had unexpected news in June that kept me occupied all summer. I had plants in the back property that I took care of and I had plants in the woods that I just left, I did weed around them once or twice while looking for males but most of veg they were on their own. Had a mix of fems and regs in both spots. Out in the woods most of the fem plants suffered, many of them ended up with little to nothing to harvest. One spot out of six had one big, feminized plant. All the other nice plants were regs. Out back the fems and the regs did about the same but those plants were watered and fed, watched for pests and the weeds kept down around them.

Definitely no controlled experiment but I did notice none of my feminized plants that I put in the woods did anything except for 1, even then it grew tall but doesn't have a ton of bud. Granted not all the regular plants did well either but a lot of them still grew into pretty nice plants. I pulled may nice males, most of my nice plants in the woods were males. Got me thinking maybe there is something missing with the fems. If anything I think maybe it's in the hardiness aspects or its defenses. Thinking a little deeper, many of the fems were hit really bad with Septoria too, probably because the leaf hoppers seemed to gravitate towards them. I noticed plants that the leaf hoppers preferred were also preferred by Septoria. The little bastards spread it. Gotta get out of the woods into the garden.

Well there it is, not scientific, just my opinion. Sure wont stop me from growing and buying fems.

 

[RookieBuds]

@Schwaggy P dropped some knowledge on this subject, that has slightly changed my tune. Slightly. I'll explain:

I've always had in my mind, a great way to preserve a specific cut would be to make S1 fem seeds of it. . .. Well, he explains in such a way that doing so can exacerbate undesirable traits in the progeny. It's still something I want to do (self a cut) but I'm less hopeful that the resulting seeds will mirror the original cut Like I had originally planned.

 

[Schwaggy P]

Well, he explains in such a way that doing so can exacerbate undesirable traits in the progeny

It would exacerbate any recessive traits in the progeny. The recessive traits may be good or bad, the issue is that they will appear more frequently in the selfed progeny vs. outcrossed progeny. The example you're referencing assumes the recessive trait is intersexing, which is bad, but that was the premise of the example. It may very well be that the trait you're looking for (good trait) may be recessive and in this instance, you'd have better luck selfing than outcrossing. What I suggest is to self the plant you want AND do a backcross with a male of a different line and decide which path was more successful.

 

[RookieBuds]

It would exacerbate any recessive traits in the progeny. The recessive traits may be good or bad, the issue is that they will appear more frequently in the selfed progeny vs. outcrossed progeny. The example you're referencing assumes the recessive trait is intersexing, which is bad, but that was the premise of the example. It may very well be that the trait you're looking for (good trait) may be recessive and in this instance, you'd have better luck selfing than outcrossing. What I suggest is to self the plant you want AND do a backcross with a male of a different line and decide which path was more successful.

Ahhh, good point. "Recessive" traits, not necessarily "undesirable"

Got it. My mistake

 

[whiteravenseeds]

very good info here for sure. on a side note, i've noticed a surprising number of peeps don't follow the genetic lines they work from seed or clone, at least in background.

great example is "White Fire OG" or "WiFi" from OGraskal. was never released as a regular offering, only from fem seed, the crossing of two females. WiFi#43 is, simply put, a selection from 100 fem seeds, run by Jungle Boys.

as such, if you femmed a WiFi clone from the source, those are re-femmed seeds, i believe the correct term is R2 at that point. GMO is another, found in a pack of Mamiko "Chem Cookies", which are again feminized seeds, created from crossing two females.

not saying these lines are weaker in any sense, with selection comes keepers regardless.

 

[UrbanHillbilly]

Are you asking wether its worth your time to make feminize seeds or just to buy and grow them to clone?

Just for cloning. I have a strain where I only have one remaining fem'd seed and I'm having trouble finding anymore for sale, so I hope to clone it.

 

[Chunky Stool]

Just for cloning. I have a strain where I only have one remaining fem'd seed and I'm having trouble finding anymore for sale, so I hope to clone it.

Putting all your eggs in one basket (seed) doesn't sound promising.
Good luck bro...

 

[UrbanHillbilly]

Putting all your eggs in one basket (seed) doesn't sound promising.
Good luck bro...

Agreed, hence why I've been searching for a source for more seeds to buy. Thanks to my own bone-headedness, I do have a bunch of seeds from the last grow where I had a different strain that turned out male and I didn't notice until way too late. I'm still enjoying what flower we got out of it, but the buds were seed bombs (of course) and we saved a bunch of those seeds. Might pop a few just out of curiosity to see how that turns out. The female was Vanilla Gelato, and the male was from tester beans with a cross between Overflo OG x Blue Cherries. Could have the potential to be pretty tasty.

 

[Cannaman]

Agreed, hence why I've been searching for a source for more seeds to buy. Thanks to my own bone-headedness, I do have a bunch of seeds from the last grow where I had a different strain that turned out male and I didn't notice until way too late. I'm still enjoying what flower we got out of it, but the buds were seed bombs (of course) and we saved a bunch of those seeds. Might pop a few just out of curiosity to see how that turns out. The female was Vanilla Gelato, and the male was from tester beans with a cross between Overflo OG x Blue Cherries. Could have the potential to be pretty tasty.

If I was you I'd definitely pop some. Who knows you may just end up finding a keeper for your stable out of an accidental pollination. I know that I missed out on a couple of amazing plants when I first started out. After missing out like that I learned ro take cuts of anything I'm flowering from seed before I flip I ever flip. The lineage you provided seems to be pretty promising. Good luck on the hunt!

 

[Buckeyetoker]

Just for cloning. I have a strain where I only have one remaining fem'd seed and I'm having trouble finding anymore for sale, so I hope to clone it.

Im with you man! Ive only got two seeds of Mango Sapphire left and Humbolt is out of business. One of my favorites strains. Im gonna hopefully get them to pop and make seeds.

 

[RookieBuds]

I want to revisit a point I had previously made that definitely echoes these last few comments --- except in my case, we are down to an irreplaceable cut; I was always under the impression that a solid "back up plan" would be to make S1 fem seeds of this clone 🤷🏻‍♂️

for some odd reason I've always had this idea in my head, as it pertains to S1 seeds is that the progeny will closely mirror the parentage. . .. well, there's only ONE parent. I did not take into acct the "potential" unlocking of recessive (NOT necessarily undesirable) traits that I may not want to deal with 🤷🏻‍♂️. For now, with success, we keep very cleanly and meticulously "cloning the clone", Dad flips the big plant and keeps the new rooted cut, rinse & repeat.

 

[Frimpong]

I want to revisit a point I had previously made that definitely echoes these last few comments --- except in my case, we are down to an irreplaceable cut; I was always under the impression that a solid "back up plan" would be to make S1 fem seeds of this clone 🤷🏻‍♂️

for some odd reason I've always had this idea in my head, as it pertains to S1 seeds is that the progeny will closely mirror the parentage. . .. well, there's only ONE parent. I did not take into acct the "potential" unlocking of recessive (NOT necessarily undesirable) traits that I may not want to deal with 🤷🏻‍♂️. For now, with success, we keep very cleanly and meticulously "cloning the clone", Dad flips the big plant and keeps the new rooted cut, rinse & repeat.

I know I'm late to chime in here, but I do notice that there is a broader range of phenotypes at F2 versus R2. Jmho