will the wickedness never end?
- Thread starter greyfader
- Start date
the first thing folks usually want to know is how all the leak proof connections are made. the thicker hose you see is the continental rubber hose pictured below. two years ago i was paying 24.95 and today i paid 46 for the exact same shit.
it is 5/8" id and 7/8" od. if you drill a precision 13/16" hole with a step bit and then cut the hose at an angle you can pull it throught the hole with channel locks. once in the hole they don't leak.
the connection from the trash can/volume tank is made the same way. there are no bulkhead fittings used.
all the pump, manifold, and halo hose is 1/2" id hydrofarm.
i flooded the first time to the proper level with my wand and pump to get it fill faster than the float valve would alone.
using the yardstick i filled until the level was 4" below the opening. this "air gap" is necessary for the device to work properly.
it is what moves the "perched water table out of the container and into the tailpiece where it occupies much less volume.
the halos have 15 drip fittings installed in each one. this is superior to drilling as you get uniform flow and all halos flow the same.
the halos will deliver a quart in 15 sec. i have the timer set to fire every 3 hours right now.
2 min per day actual pump run time.
this "wave" of solution corrects ph and ec in the root zone and exchanges gases.
well, i tried to put some captions on the above pics but i'm timed out for editing.
in the float bucket pic you can see the little plug with the 7/64" hole in it. this goes into the hose feeding the recirculating reservoir. it is there to restrict flow when the pump fires and rapidly draws the reservoir level down. the 7/64" hole prevents overfilling the system.
it is 5/8" id and 7/8" od. if you drill a precision 13/16" hole with a step bit and then cut the hose at an angle you can pull it throught the hole with channel locks. once in the hole they don't leak.
the connection from the trash can/volume tank is made the same way. there are no bulkhead fittings used.
all the pump, manifold, and halo hose is 1/2" id hydrofarm.
i flooded the first time to the proper level with my wand and pump to get it fill faster than the float valve would alone.
using the yardstick i filled until the level was 4" below the opening. this "air gap" is necessary for the device to work properly.
it is what moves the "perched water table out of the container and into the tailpiece where it occupies much less volume.
the halos have 15 drip fittings installed in each one. this is superior to drilling as you get uniform flow and all halos flow the same.
the halos will deliver a quart in 15 sec. i have the timer set to fire every 3 hours right now.
2 min per day actual pump run time.
this "wave" of solution corrects ph and ec in the root zone and exchanges gases.
well, i tried to put some captions on the above pics but i'm timed out for editing.
in the float bucket pic you can see the little plug with the 7/64" hole in it. this goes into the hose feeding the recirculating reservoir. it is there to restrict flow when the pump fires and rapidly draws the reservoir level down. the 7/64" hole prevents overfilling the system.
Attachments
Texagonian
CHOOSE YOUR TITLE
Looking good @delta9nxs , I’m following along and taking notes. Thank you for sharing this. Quite excited to try it out.
got it loaded with two orange kush cake and two planet of the grapes. 100% perlite with about 3/8" topping of worm castings, vermiculite, and diatomaceous earth.
watered it all in with the wand instead of the halo to get it all wetted out and into the top of the perlite.
then hooked up the halos and set them to 20 sec every hour initially until they recover from transplant. this delivers about a quart per pulse.
watered it all in with the wand instead of the halo to get it all wetted out and into the top of the perlite.
then hooked up the halos and set them to 20 sec every hour initially until they recover from transplant. this delivers about a quart per pulse.
Attachments
today i transplanted the 2 remaining "orange kush cakes" and the 2 remaining "planet of the grapes" into larger containers that will be wand watered drain to waste just outside the pool.
i took a few pics of the roots coming out of the 2.5 quart containers. this is one of the "planet of the grapes".
i took a few pics of the roots coming out of the 2.5 quart containers. this is one of the "planet of the grapes".
Attachments
a little more progress!
got the net into its final resting place. cut the timer back from 20 sec every hour to 20 sec every 2 hours.
getting some interesting smells
the one big leaf shot is from one of the "candy stores". it has 11 leaflets and the other 6 all have 9. it also stinks really good!
got the net into its final resting place. cut the timer back from 20 sec every hour to 20 sec every 2 hours.
getting some interesting smells
the one big leaf shot is from one of the "candy stores". it has 11 leaflets and the other 6 all have 9. it also stinks really good!
Attachments
Last edited:
Texagonian
CHOOSE YOUR TITLE
So 4 inch air gap from the opening on the plant reservoir so to speak and how far does the tailpiece need to extend down in to the water? I’m soaking this up! Also, what hose are you using to connect each plant site to the pump bucket? Thanks, hope all is well.
the end of the tailpiece needs to be immersed at all times to get the synergistic effect. with a 6" tailpiece and a 4 " air gap you still have 2" of solution in the system to back feed the plant during the interval between irrigation pulses and to act as a redundant source of water should the power go off or pump fails.
to understand the need for an "air gap" we first must understand the "perched water table".
growing in containers is fundamentally different than growing in the open soil column.
in the field, water applied to the surface around a plant continues through and past the root system leaving it well aerated. in other words water is not trapped in the root zone in a solid layer.
in a container, there is formed after every watering event a layer of solid water at the bottom of the pot.
the height of the perched water table (pwt) is determined by the particle size of the medium. the finer the particle the larger the pwt.
this layer of water occurs because the forces of cohesion (waters attraction to itself) and adhesion (waters attraction to other substances) are holding water in the container against the force of gravity.
this layer of "solid" water" contains no air.
in a conventional container it can only be eliminated by transpiration and evaporation.
the gravitational flow potential (gfp) rapidly drains a freshly watered container down to the point where the pwt forms but no further leaving the roots sitting in a pool of water.
this is fine for short periods as the water will contain some dissolved oxygen.
but a fast growing plant can consume the o2 content rapidly leaving the roots sitting in an anaerobic solution.
this is where anerobic bacteria thrive and root rot begins.
i also feel that it sends some type of hormonal signal to slow plant growth for survival.
all of this is why you can't water a conventional pot until it nearly dries out.
but what if we had a way to mechanically drain the pwt immediately after each watering event?
this is where the ppk "tailpiece" comes in.
since the pwt will exist at the same height regardless of container shape or size we can move it down into the tailpiece greatly reducing it's size and therefore it's negative effect on the plant.
by moving the pwt into the "tailpiece" the volume of the pwt is reduced radically.
by moving the pwt into the tailpiece we have greatly reduced the volume of the pwt and therefore its negative hormonal feedback by, hopefully, the same amount.
this is where the "air gap" comes in.
the pwt will exist on top of the water level in the tailpiece
if there were no air gap and water were to totally fill the tailpiece below each plant the pwt will still fully exist in the root zone.
by adding an air gap of at least 1.5" we can move the pwt into the tailpiece completely.
since water in a container is not evenly distributed but graded by gravity there is a moisture distribution curve. drier at the top and wetter at the bottom.
with only a 1.5" air gap the bottom of the medium will still be too wet because of capillary rise.
by tuning the air gap we can adjust the moisture distribution curve in the root zone.
with most media an air gap of about 4" plus or minus an inch not only removes the pwt from the plant container but tunes the moisture content of the medium.
in the ppk we can totally control moisture content by using 3 tools.
the duration of each watering event, the interval between watering events, and the air gap, tuning the distribution curve in the root zone between events.
the root zone is an interface between roots, water, air, and nutrients. the more time during the life of the plant that this interface is kept in an ideal state the larger and heavier the plant will be.
Last edited:
Texagonian
CHOOSE YOUR TITLE
Thank you for the detailed information. It sounds like a 4” air gap is a good starting point and I can fine tune from there. I don’t think you touched base on the tailpiece depth in to the reservoir below the air gap. I believe you mentioned drilling a couple holes in the tailpiece to reduce biofilm buildup in the tailpiece. Could you touch base on that for me please? Thank you for all of the information D9, it’s greatly appreciated.
the hose is the continental brand 5/8" id, 7/8" od rubber hose pictured above. it functions just like a uniseal. it is the same rubber.
the bucket pictured in this build is just for the float valve. the pump is in the central reservoir.
the bucket is connected to the reservoir/pump chamber by a single piece of the continental hose.
give me a few minutes and i'll post a hose install tutorial.
tutorial! what a wierd word.
you posted about the holes in the tailpiece before i posted this but the holes are not in the tailpiece they are in the container bottom near the tailpiece. they are not absoluetly necessary but sometimes if the solution turnover rate is not great enough in the lower container a film will form. not always but it tends to happen in larger reservoirs with a slower volumetric turnover rate.
it is not all that dangerous but it can cause slight surface precipitation of nutrients.
the bucket pictured in this build is just for the float valve. the pump is in the central reservoir.
the bucket is connected to the reservoir/pump chamber by a single piece of the continental hose.
give me a few minutes and i'll post a hose install tutorial.
tutorial! what a wierd word.
you posted about the holes in the tailpiece before i posted this but the holes are not in the tailpiece they are in the container bottom near the tailpiece. they are not absoluetly necessary but sometimes if the solution turnover rate is not great enough in the lower container a film will form. not always but it tends to happen in larger reservoirs with a slower volumetric turnover rate.
it is not all that dangerous but it can cause slight surface precipitation of nutrients.
Last edited:
all pretty well self explanatory. you don't need the 50 dollar step bit from lowes that will drill through spring steel. we are drilling plastic. i use the cheapest ones i can find, usually harbor freight. they have a cheap hole saw kit there i highly recommend for plastic.
the high quality saws have a more aggressive tooth design and tear up plastic
i forgot to add that you use the 13/16" step. if you go all the way through with the 7/8" step it will leak.
the high quality saws have a more aggressive tooth design and tear up plastic
i forgot to add that you use the 13/16" step. if you go all the way through with the 7/8" step it will leak.
Attachments
Last edited:
about the "air gap". it is adjustable by raising or lowering the overall solution level in the system using the float valve.
this is one of the tools at your disposal for fine-tuning moisture content in the medium.
you learn the capillary rise potential for your particular choice of media. this can be done by simply taking a 20 oz soft drink bottle and drilling a very small hole in both the top and the bottom of the container.
fill the container with your very dry medium. i sometimes will bake it in the oven for a while to drive out moisture.
then place the bottle in a shallow pan of water, maybe less than 1/4".
leave it alone for a few days adding water to the shallow pan if necessary.
observe the moisture level in the bottle.
this is your capillary rise potential.
hydroton sucks at this. turface, perlite, pumice, coco all have good potential.
so you use this knowledge to help you tune the moisture content in the rhizosphere.
your other 2 tools are the duration and therefore volume of each irrigation event, and the interval between events.
using these three tools you can fine-tune the moisture content in any choice of media.
this is one of the tools at your disposal for fine-tuning moisture content in the medium.
you learn the capillary rise potential for your particular choice of media. this can be done by simply taking a 20 oz soft drink bottle and drilling a very small hole in both the top and the bottom of the container.
fill the container with your very dry medium. i sometimes will bake it in the oven for a while to drive out moisture.
then place the bottle in a shallow pan of water, maybe less than 1/4".
leave it alone for a few days adding water to the shallow pan if necessary.
observe the moisture level in the bottle.
this is your capillary rise potential.
hydroton sucks at this. turface, perlite, pumice, coco all have good potential.
so you use this knowledge to help you tune the moisture content in the rhizosphere.
your other 2 tools are the duration and therefore volume of each irrigation event, and the interval between events.
using these three tools you can fine-tune the moisture content in any choice of media.
Texagonian
CHOOSE YOUR TITLE
Perfect! Thank you. I’ve got a couple sets of the step bits, I’m a mechanic and are a must have. So on a smaller diameter tailpiece that I plant to use (1.5”) just some zip ties threaded at the bottom to keep the medium from falling through is what you use or could a person push some screen material down or around the bottom and it be basically the same ? Where did you source the plug (restriction) for the reservoir with the float valve to the pump reservoir? I could probably make something as well, just thought I’d ask.
this is what i've been doing lately.
these crossed 4" zipties are held in place by the heads cut off of two others to hold them in place.
i have been just using a piece of screen on the inside resting on the cross but the one you see with the screen on the outside held in place by an 8" ziptie flows better. this is regular fiberglass window screen but there is a pet screen at lowes and hd's that has a larger mesh and i will use it the next time.
i didn't answer your question on the gray barbed fittings. they are at all lowes in the plumbing dept. they say 1/2" but they fit the 5/8" id hose snugly. they are cheap. under 50 cents depending on the type. tees and ells, various threaded/barbed fittings. males and females. we plumbed the whole 10k sq ft room with them.
if you are using fibrous coco you may not need the screen at all. the prococo "chips and fiber" does not.
i wanted to add that the 1.5" tailpieces are good up to about 2 gal containers. beyond that you need larger ones but you can also use multiple 1.5's. for example, a 2" tube has a cross section of 3.14 sq in, and if i remember right, two 1.5's are about 3.56 sq in.
these crossed 4" zipties are held in place by the heads cut off of two others to hold them in place.
i have been just using a piece of screen on the inside resting on the cross but the one you see with the screen on the outside held in place by an 8" ziptie flows better. this is regular fiberglass window screen but there is a pet screen at lowes and hd's that has a larger mesh and i will use it the next time.
i didn't answer your question on the gray barbed fittings. they are at all lowes in the plumbing dept. they say 1/2" but they fit the 5/8" id hose snugly. they are cheap. under 50 cents depending on the type. tees and ells, various threaded/barbed fittings. males and females. we plumbed the whole 10k sq ft room with them.
if you are using fibrous coco you may not need the screen at all. the prococo "chips and fiber" does not.
i wanted to add that the 1.5" tailpieces are good up to about 2 gal containers. beyond that you need larger ones but you can also use multiple 1.5's. for example, a 2" tube has a cross section of 3.14 sq in, and if i remember right, two 1.5's are about 3.56 sq in.
Attachments
Last edited:
Texagonian
CHOOSE YOUR TITLE
I’m going to be using 2 gal plant containers/buckets, plant res. I’ll have to check but I think it’s 4 gal and I’ll probably be using a tote of some sort for the pump/float valve res. I’m super excited to try this out. Oh, for medium I found that concentrates NW sells different grades of pumice which I plan to use and probably the 3/16 size/grade. They also carry jacks which I already have but for a 25 lb bag it’s 40 bucks which is the cheapest I’ve found. They are local to me and have a multitude of other gardening supplies, amendments etc.
the 3/16" sounds fine. wash the hell out of it as it will be filthy. also you might want to sterilize it somehow. it has been mined, transported, and stored in the open.
great price on the jack's. i got it at wilco in oregon. but i got the yara liva calcinit at another huge farm supply place near corvallis. it's not a retail store. they supply the turf and grass seed farms.
the yara calcinit is definitely superior to the jrpeters. it doesn't have any sodium or chlorides in it. i paid 20 bucks for a 50 lb bag.
great price on the jack's. i got it at wilco in oregon. but i got the yara liva calcinit at another huge farm supply place near corvallis. it's not a retail store. they supply the turf and grass seed farms.
the yara calcinit is definitely superior to the jrpeters. it doesn't have any sodium or chlorides in it. i paid 20 bucks for a 50 lb bag.
Texagonian
CHOOSE YOUR TITLE
That’s where I got my jacks was Wilco and I got the 50# bag of Yara liva calcinit at that concentrates NW place for like 15 bucks. Very fortunate to have those places. Copy that on the pumice, I was planning on washing and possibly pasteurizing or spraying with something.
i'm the one who got wilco in oregon to stock jacks. i had been buying it with freight charges all the way from pennsylvania. i told the manager of the store in Springfield that it was very popular with cannabis growers. he smiled and said he would work on it. the next time i went in it was there.
i also popularized it online. i began writing about it on icmag in oct 2010.
i had gone through everything at the hydro store and even made my own mineral salt ferts. still wasn't happy.
an individual can't buy in bulk cheap enough to compete with people like jrpeters. they buy train cars full and are master chemists with a lot of experience. cari peters is the grandaughter of the original peters fertilizer company founder.
at some point he sold the company and the new owners kept the peters name. so peters fertilizer is not the same company as jrpeters, the makers of jack's. jr peters was started by the descendants of jack peters.
i should have said dr. cari peters as she has a phd in horticulture, a masters in soil science, and a bachelors in biology.
12 years ago they wouldn't publically state that the jack's formula was cannabis specific. i asked her point blank on the phone what plant it was designed for and her response was that it was developed for small indoor growers. but she didn't specify what plant. i didn't push her on it as gentlemen don't do that.
but what do most small indoor growers grow? at least the ones i know.
now their site is all about cannabis. well, not all maybe but can we agree that it is heavily weighted towards ganja?
after washing the pumice you could give it a soak in regular laundry bleach. just add a quart or two to the water in a tub or something. let it stand for a while, drain, and rinse. it will gas off any residuals.
i look back on my experience in oregon as very educational in several ways.
i learned a lot about liars, assholes, thieves, and sociopaths. everyone is a player and to them, you look like a fat chump they can hustle.
they come out of the woodwork in a legal environment. middlemen with nothing trying to hustle something from the ones with assets or abilities.
i learned a lot about trying to work with the state in a legal environment. and it wasn't good information either. they were arbitrary, heavy-handed, disrespectful, and distrustful of the people who pay them. i was in oregon for the first dispensaries and then the move to recreational. i tried to stay compliant and it was a constant battle with them.
before the vote for recreational, they promised all the medical growers that they would not change the system one iota. it wasn't two weeks later they began trying to take medical apart, piece by piece.
when i left they were about to make me start rfid tagging every fucking clone. that was it for me.
i was a black market, stealth grower for 20 years before that and i know it's going to sound funny but it's actually a less stressful experience than dealing with the fucking government.
other than that, oregon was a lovely place if you like 7 months of dark, low ceiling, overcast with continuous light rain.
after oregon i know every cannabis pest intimately. you can't buy a clone without getting something.
i would freak them out in the dispensaries when buying clones. i would select the ones i wanted, pay for them, and then cut them off the roots, trim them up for cloning again, throw the stripped down cutting in avid in a bucket. then grow them for production cuttings.
I-5 should be called the Great Mite Way because there are probably more mites than people on the road. all traveling in comfort and style on clones.
just for the grow journal record most of the seedlings are showing slight alternate phyllotaxy. six weeks from germinating.
today i clone.
later
i also popularized it online. i began writing about it on icmag in oct 2010.
i had gone through everything at the hydro store and even made my own mineral salt ferts. still wasn't happy.
an individual can't buy in bulk cheap enough to compete with people like jrpeters. they buy train cars full and are master chemists with a lot of experience. cari peters is the grandaughter of the original peters fertilizer company founder.
at some point he sold the company and the new owners kept the peters name. so peters fertilizer is not the same company as jrpeters, the makers of jack's. jr peters was started by the descendants of jack peters.
i should have said dr. cari peters as she has a phd in horticulture, a masters in soil science, and a bachelors in biology.
12 years ago they wouldn't publically state that the jack's formula was cannabis specific. i asked her point blank on the phone what plant it was designed for and her response was that it was developed for small indoor growers. but she didn't specify what plant. i didn't push her on it as gentlemen don't do that.
but what do most small indoor growers grow? at least the ones i know.
now their site is all about cannabis. well, not all maybe but can we agree that it is heavily weighted towards ganja?
after washing the pumice you could give it a soak in regular laundry bleach. just add a quart or two to the water in a tub or something. let it stand for a while, drain, and rinse. it will gas off any residuals.
i look back on my experience in oregon as very educational in several ways.
i learned a lot about liars, assholes, thieves, and sociopaths. everyone is a player and to them, you look like a fat chump they can hustle.
they come out of the woodwork in a legal environment. middlemen with nothing trying to hustle something from the ones with assets or abilities.
i learned a lot about trying to work with the state in a legal environment. and it wasn't good information either. they were arbitrary, heavy-handed, disrespectful, and distrustful of the people who pay them. i was in oregon for the first dispensaries and then the move to recreational. i tried to stay compliant and it was a constant battle with them.
before the vote for recreational, they promised all the medical growers that they would not change the system one iota. it wasn't two weeks later they began trying to take medical apart, piece by piece.
when i left they were about to make me start rfid tagging every fucking clone. that was it for me.
i was a black market, stealth grower for 20 years before that and i know it's going to sound funny but it's actually a less stressful experience than dealing with the fucking government.
other than that, oregon was a lovely place if you like 7 months of dark, low ceiling, overcast with continuous light rain.
after oregon i know every cannabis pest intimately. you can't buy a clone without getting something.
i would freak them out in the dispensaries when buying clones. i would select the ones i wanted, pay for them, and then cut them off the roots, trim them up for cloning again, throw the stripped down cutting in avid in a bucket. then grow them for production cuttings.
I-5 should be called the Great Mite Way because there are probably more mites than people on the road. all traveling in comfort and style on clones.
just for the grow journal record most of the seedlings are showing slight alternate phyllotaxy. six weeks from germinating.
today i clone.
later
ok, get ready to rumble! i got all the clones taken. 4 each of the seedlings, 60 total.
got all plants into position.
the plants in the net are spreading nicely. i'm waiting until i think they will fill the net during stretch. not much longer.
i have not topped anything yet. i want to see how they shape naturally for a while.
got all plants into position.
the plants in the net are spreading nicely. i'm waiting until i think they will fill the net during stretch. not much longer.
i have not topped anything yet. i want to see how they shape naturally for a while.
Attachments
today i set the pump timer to 20 sec every 3 hours. 160 sec total daily pump run time. this is just the 4 plants in the system. everything else is going to be hand-watered by wand once per day.
at the 2 hour setting the plants in the pool began showing light algae on the surface. at the 3 hour setting this should disappear. using halos that fire straight down into the media will allow me to maintain a light dry crust of perlite with everything below that wetted.
to eliminate the algae on the surface i'm about to spray the surface with h2o2.
i took the first readings in the automated system and while i'm feeding 5.7-5.8 ph it reads 6.2 in the recirculating part. all normal. just input only, no change of solution has occured. i may not change it at all during this grow.
i'm feeding a reduced jack's 3-2-1 formula of 2.7 gr jacks 5-12-26, 1.8 gr yara brand calcinit, and .9 gr per gal walmart mag sulfate, 1/2 tsp maxigro kelp powder per 30 gal and i just started 1ml per gal of mr fulvic. i'm using 12ml 85% phosphoric acid per 30 gals as ph down.
this is giving me a total of 840 ppm at the .5 conversion. this includes my 100 ppm tap water.
the topping mix is doing a great job of keeping moisture all the way up to the surface between watering events. even though the halos are pointing straight down the top at the corners several inches away laterally is uniformly wet.
this is the first time i've used worm castings in the system and i'm watching closely to see if i have any bacterial blooms.
at the 2 hour setting the plants in the pool began showing light algae on the surface. at the 3 hour setting this should disappear. using halos that fire straight down into the media will allow me to maintain a light dry crust of perlite with everything below that wetted.
to eliminate the algae on the surface i'm about to spray the surface with h2o2.
i took the first readings in the automated system and while i'm feeding 5.7-5.8 ph it reads 6.2 in the recirculating part. all normal. just input only, no change of solution has occured. i may not change it at all during this grow.
i'm feeding a reduced jack's 3-2-1 formula of 2.7 gr jacks 5-12-26, 1.8 gr yara brand calcinit, and .9 gr per gal walmart mag sulfate, 1/2 tsp maxigro kelp powder per 30 gal and i just started 1ml per gal of mr fulvic. i'm using 12ml 85% phosphoric acid per 30 gals as ph down.
this is giving me a total of 840 ppm at the .5 conversion. this includes my 100 ppm tap water.
the topping mix is doing a great job of keeping moisture all the way up to the surface between watering events. even though the halos are pointing straight down the top at the corners several inches away laterally is uniformly wet.
this is the first time i've used worm castings in the system and i'm watching closely to see if i have any bacterial blooms.
Last edited:
