Question ELI5 - Most of my plants make 2-3 seeds each grow

[Captain Sternn]

I asked about this on a board I used to inhabit until I found a more comfortable place to hang my hat As I said, I have found during trimming that most of my plants make a small number of seeds, I'm likely not finding them all, but usually find 1-3 per plant. I've never found any herming in anything I've grown yet but clearly something less than full on herming is not being detected by me. There's only been 1 - 2 males that were tossed upon ID without the sacs ever opening.

So, I asked elsewhere and was answered that hormone levels tell the plant that it has not been pollinated, and it micro-herms just in 1 or 2 spots usually down low, as a basically last ditch effort to perpetuate itself. My question is, is there a term for this, like autoselfing, or ??? Is viable seed created this way essentially a clone in the form of a seed ?

 

[Cincimilla Genetics]

Great question. If there is no pollen and the plant has a survival mechanism it could be this term:

apomixis, reproduction by special generative tissues without fertilization. It includes parthenogenesis in animals, in which the new individual develops from the unfertilized egg, and apogamy in certain plants, in which the generative tissue may be the sporophyte or the gametophyte. Apomixis provides for the perpetuation of traits favourable to individual survival but eliminates the longer-term evolutionary advantage of biparental inheritance.

 

[Cincimilla Genetics]

I may have mis interpreted your question…is this consistently happening on lowers indoors?

 

[Cincimilla Genetics]

I had plants give two or three seeds on the lowest buds because of the tiny red light on my timer outside of the tent and got through a leak in the corner of the tent zipper.

 

[Hitch]

I asked about this on a board I used to inhabit until I found a more comfortable place to hang my hat As I said, I have found during trimming that most of my plants make a small number of seeds, I'm likely not finding them all, but usually find 1-3 per plant. I've never found any herming in anything I've grown yet but clearly something less than full on herming is not being detected by me. There's only been 1 - 2 males that were tossed upon ID without the sacs ever opening.

So, I asked elsewhere and was answered that hormone levels tell the plant that it has not been pollinated, and it micro-herms just in 1 or 2 spots usually down low, as a basically last ditch effort to perpetuate itself. My question is, is there a term for this, like autoselfing, or ??? Is viable seed created this way essentially a clone in the form of a seed ?

Sounds a bit like rodelization. I’m not sure if that term only applies to that intentional method of creating seeds or not though.

“Rodelization is a…technique that involves exploiting a natural self-defense mechanism of the plant. An unpollinated female cannabis plant with fully mature flowers may, in some cases, grow pollen sacs to fertilize itself to ensure its propagation.”

 

[Captain Sternn]

I may have mis interpreted your question…is this consistently happening on lowers indoors?

I had plants give two or three seeds on the lowest buds because of the tiny red light on my timer outside of the tent and got through a leak in the corner of the tent zipper.

No, I grow outdoors. It's maybe not every last plant but most of them I find 1-3 during processing. I popped one this year, from last years Durban, my plants had to reveg early on and I wanted an additional plant for insurance because I wasn't sure how that was going to end up. That one was male and I pulled it.

 

[Captain Sternn]

Sounds a bit like rodelization. I’m not sure if that term only applies to that intentional method of creating seeds or not though.

“Rodelization is a…technique that involves exploiting a natural self-defense mechanism of the plant. An unpollinated female cannabis plant with fully mature flowers may, in some cases, grow pollen sacs to fertilize itself to ensure its propagation.”

That fits with what I was told elsewhere. Next season I'm going to try to watch those lowers closer, maybe I could actually exploit it a bit. Find the nanners and pollinate a few more lowers than it would get done by itself.

 

[Hitch]

That fits with what I was told elsewhere. Next season I'm going to try to watch those lowers closer, maybe I could actually exploit it a bit. Find the nanners and pollinate a few more lowers than it would get done by itself.

I think it’s a generally 'frowned upon' method of creating feminized seed, but there seem to be people who have exploited it to good effect 🤷‍♂️

Good luck with the experiment 😊

 

[Captain Sternn]

I think it’s a generally 'frowned upon' method of creating feminized seed

Well there's a new wrinkle...now I'm wondering if this is what they are doing, but sometimes may hit one of the other plants as well. I say that because the Durban seed I mentioned above, popped this year from a seed in last years harvest as a hedge against other plants failing because there were some issues early on, that plant was male... but should have been female if it was from this "auto-selfing" process ? I have like zero grasp of this stuff, makes my brain hurt lol.

I do know that in 3 grows I've only had 2 males, this year was that Durban seed I've never bought any Durban seed, but got clones. And last year I had a Lake Tahoe male that came from a breeder pak. It's uncharacteristic of me, but this business really doesn't bother me any even though I don't have any control of it. It only makes a very few seeds and I'm actually cool with that but I'm starting to think the seeds it makes, I can't necessarily rely that they are what I think they are.

 

[notdezmond]

you may have your self some nice new feminized seeds!! Some people use to rodelization method to make fem seeds but like @Hitch says it’s more acceptable to use a mechanical form (sts or colloidal silver)

 

[Hitch]

Well there's a new wrinkle...now I'm wondering if this is what they are doing, but sometimes may hit one of the other plants as well. I say that because the Durban seed I mentioned above, popped this year from a seed in last years harvest as a hedge against other plants failing because there were some issues early on, that plant was male... but should have been female if it was from this "auto-selfing" process ? I have like zero grasp of this stuff, makes my brain hurt lol.

I do know that in 3 grows I've only had 2 males, this year was that Durban seed I've never bought any Durban seed, but got clones. And last year I had a Lake Tahoe male that came from a breeder pak. It's uncharacteristic of me, but this business really doesn't bother me any even though I don't have any control of it. It only makes a very few seeds and I'm actually cool with that but I'm starting to think the seeds it makes, I can't necessarily rely that they are what I think they are.

Let me first say that there are others here who are far more learned than me about these things. I don’t really know shit haha

But as I understand things, you should have gotten a female seed if the mother was fertilized with feminized pollen. Even if it was pollen from another plant created by rodelization.

So I am not sure why you had a male. It’s a mystery to me lol.

I do know, however, that Durban is a funny bitch. The one grow I tried more than 10 years ago was a herm fest…my only real time I’ve had that. The seeds were from Europe, but I don’t remember the breeder. I only mention this wondering if you had an actual male, or if it might have been a hermaphrodite or intersex? Otherwise I got nothin' 🤷‍♂️

Edit… I also get a few mystery seeds from time to time. Usually immature, but occasionally not. I haven’t popped any of these since I started growing again. But in the distant past, when I have popped seeds like these, they have always been female for me.

 

[notdezmond]

Let me first say that there are others here who are far more learned than me about these things. I don’t really know shit haha

I should almost always preface anything, anytime I open my mouth with this exact phrase. How do I make a signature?

 

[Psychobilly]

I asked about this on a board I used to inhabit until I found a more comfortable place to hang my hat As I said, I have found during trimming that most of my plants make a small number of seeds, I'm likely not finding them all, but usually find 1-3 per plant. I've never found any herming in anything I've grown yet but clearly something less than full on herming is not being detected by me. There's only been 1 - 2 males that were tossed upon ID without the sacs ever opening.

So, I asked elsewhere and was answered that hormone levels tell the plant that it has not been pollinated, and it micro-herms just in 1 or 2 spots usually down low, as a basically last ditch effort to perpetuate itself. My question is, is there a term for this, like autoselfing, or ??? Is viable seed created this way essentially a clone in the form of a seed ?

Some of them may just be a hermie trait shining through, but, I also have seen FAR too many "Bag seed of whatever strain" pop up with WAY too many males for it to be a hermie trait without me winning the lotto.

Some of them may be mystery pollinations. It's a thing with running outside; Pollen can travel something like 3 miles on the wind, so anyone near you, who has a male plant outside, can pollinate a few of your plants without you even knowing it.

I've had plants where I'd get a few seeds like you, and think "OK I've got bagseed of this strain now" and then I'd run the seeds, and get like multiple male plants, which is.... VERY unlikely to say the least.

After seeing it happen SO often, I eventually reported my findings on here, and after talking to Schwaggy about this, and ensuring that they weren't male hermie plants, he said the chances that I'd have THAT many males, simply wasn't realistic.

5 out of 7 plants were male with one of them.

I should almost always preface anything, anytime I open my mouth with this exact phrase. How do I make a signature?

At the top where you see your profile picture, there's a spot in that for changing options

 

[notdezmond]

Some of them may just be a hermie trait shining through, but, I also have seen FAR too many "Bag seed of whatever strain" pop up with WAY too many males for it to be a hermie trait without me winning the lotto.

Some of them may be mystery pollinations. It's a thing with running outside; Pollen can travel something like 3 miles on the wind, so anyone near you, who has a male plant outside, can pollinate a few of your plants without you even knowing it.

I've had plants where I'd get a few seeds like you, and think "OK I've got bagseed of this strain now" and then I'd run the seeds, and get like multiple male plants, which is.... VERY unlikely to say the least.

After seeing it happen SO often, I eventually reported my findings on here, and after talking to Schwaggy about this, and ensuring that they weren't male hermie plants, he said the chances that I'd have THAT many males, simply wasn't realistic.

5 out of 7 plants were male with one of them.

At the top where you see your profile picture, there's a spot in that for changing options

Haha thanks bro! I tried to like make a screen shot of it but I couldn’t figure it out

 

[Psychobilly]

Haha thanks bro! I tried to like make a screen shot of it but I couldn’t figure it out

Anytime bro

 

[Captain Sternn]

But as I understand things, you should have gotten a female seed if the mother was fertilized with feminized pollen. Even if it was pollen from another plant created by rodelization.

That's how I have it too. It doesn't help that I know next to nothing about the genetics when my friend gets clones for me. I've got the strains and that's it lol.

 

[Hitch]

That's how I have it too. It doesn't help that I know next to nothing about the genetics when my friend gets clones for me. I've got the strains and that's it lol.

Well if you run outdoors, it’s certainly possible you got a random pollination. It only takes one 🐝

 

[JL2G]

If it's near the stalk and just those few I'd think it could've been pollinated preflowers from an early male in veg that dropped a few grains before you culled him.
Did you have other males around last year at all?

 

[HydroRed]

Considering its outdoors, Im with @Hitch on it probably just being naturally pollinated by bugs or even the wind carrying pollen from another grow in your area you might not be aware of. A few seeds from outdoor every year sounds about right though TBH.

 

[Bullfrog]

I think that sometimes we might just leave the males go just a bit too long before pulling. I know that's the case in my accidental pollination. In spot 3 I found a few seed in a couple plants and I don't know what got them. I had males there that were pulled but I think they let some pollen go before they were pulled. Also when I pull them I usually just toss them off into the thicket not too far away. They will continue to release pollen even after being pulled. Two plants in spot 3 weren't pollinated at all because they came on later than the other plants, they were just starting to show female when I pulled the males. The first plant to start budding in that spot had the most seeds. I really didn't look the males over too well but one or more must've opened a couple sacs. Wish I'd had kept better records on which plants I had in that spot. I know I had 3 Jealousy x LA Confidential in that spot and they were all males. Could've been one of those.

In spot 5 I just plain missed a male, very late flowering plant came on after I thought I had all the males gone. Went out to check on flowering progress and saw that big male dumping pollen💔, pollinated the whole spot. There was a thicket between spot 5 and spot 6 that was 15 paces away. Had 5 females there and I did find a couple seeds but I don't think they were from the male in spot 5. The females in spot 5 were really seedy but a lot were really small and immature because that male came on so late, the females were 3-4 weeks from finish. 75% were small, white seeds, only about 10% were nice dark, plump seed, the rest were in between. In spot 6 there were no immature seeds. I think I found a total of 12 between 5 plants. If the male from spot 5 got into spot 6 there should've been some immature seeds. I did pull 3 males from spot 6 and I suspect that again either I didn't get them soon enough, thought I did, or I just didn't get them far enough away after pulling. I can live with a couple seeds in my bud but when it's full of seed and tiny immature seed at that all it's good for is making hash or edibles.


TLDR; I sometimes don't get the males soon enough even though I always think I do. All it takes is one male dropping just a little bit of pollen to make a few seeds.